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 Roberto Bolaño
oneofmurphysbiscuits
Posted: Sep 26 2009, 05:13 AM


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QUOTE (Canox @ Sep 25 2009, 08:43 PM)
Chandra's essay is NOT part of the same debate, though they SEEM similar
the difference is crucial I think
unless I misread Khair, he talks, like Moya, about the audience, about the narrative that literary critics in the west use to read indian literature etc. nnyhav is right, khair's point is the same as moya's I think, and although khair's essay is awfully written/argued he is right, I think

Chandra by contrast writes as a writer and talks about attacks on writers. he doesn't really discuss reception except as an angle to be consodered (or not) by a writer. this is a completely different point. chandra's rigzt by default I think and he spends a lot of breath to knock down a very flimsy house the pigs have long since fled, but he's right, yes, that does not pertain to khair's point though

for me too, i agree with you, the paragraph relating to storytelling in particular, since it alludes to which imaginative/creative "stocks" might be permitted..
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suzannahhh
Posted: Sep 26 2009, 09:01 AM


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reading the Chandra article
prompts me to say
how much I disapprove of critics and anyone else
who thinks to tell writers what they should write about;
what they should in- or ex-clude
what words are permissible and what not

really THE NERVE!!!!
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Funhouse
Posted: Sep 27 2009, 05:54 AM


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QUOTE (Canox @ Sep 25 2009, 08:43 PM)
Chandra's essay is NOT part of the same debate, though they SEEM similar
the difference is crucial I think
unless I misread Khair, he talks, like Moya, about the audience, about the narrative that literary critics in the west use to read indian literature etc. nnyhav is right, khair's point is the same as moya's I think, and although khair's essay is awfully written/argued he is right, I think

Chandra by contrast writes as a writer and talks about attacks on writers. he doesn't really discuss reception except as an angle to be consodered (or not) by a writer. this is a completely different point. chandra's rigzt by default I think and he spends a lot of breath to knock down a very flimsy house the pigs have long since fled, but he's right, yes, that does not pertain to khair's point though

I don't know about the articles being part of different debates. I actually think there is some crossover. Of course Khair is right that authors like Rushdie etc. (and Vikram Chandra would definitely be included himself here) are more palatable to a Western audience than, say, Mahasweta Devi or other writers in regional languages. But Khair, despite some disavowals about the excellence of Rushdie etc., is playing the same role as Meenakshi Mukherjee in Chandra's essay in essentially disparaging those authors for not being 'authentic' enough.

I don't think Chandra's point is a small one, and I do think he touches on the Western reception element that Khair raises when he defends himself against the accusation that he has crafted his work precisely for the consumption of Western audiences. I know that he's discussing this from a writer's perspective, as you observe, but I think it's relevant to Khair's point about reception because Khair implies that there is something inauthentic or inappropriate about Chandra or Rushdie being read as Indian writers. I think that Sacred Games is interesting in this respect, with its large number of untranslated words and local references that could hardly be described as pandering to a Western audience.

This is diverging from Bolaño a bit, but I do think the argument is an interesting one, and there could be some parallels with the marketing of South American authors and the marketing of Indian authors to Western audiences. And Chandra's points about cosmopolitanism could apply to Bolaño as well.
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oneofmurphysbiscuits
Posted: Sep 27 2009, 08:30 AM


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QUOTE (Funhouse @ Sep 27 2009, 05:54 AM)
QUOTE (Canox @ Sep 25 2009, 08:43 PM)
Chandra's essay is NOT part of the same debate, though they SEEM similar
the difference is crucial I think
unless I misread Khair, he talks, like Moya, about the audience, about the narrative that literary critics in the west use to read indian literature etc. nnyhav is right, khair's point is the same as moya's I think, and although khair's essay is awfully written/argued he is right, I think

Chandra by contrast writes as a writer and talks about attacks on writers. he doesn't really discuss reception except as an angle to be consodered (or not) by a writer. this is a completely different point. chandra's rigzt by default I think and he spends a lot of breath to knock down a very flimsy house the pigs have long since fled, but he's right, yes, that does not pertain to khair's point though

I don't know about the articles being part of different debates. I actually think there is some crossover. Of course Khair is right that authors like Rushdie etc. (and Vikram Chandra would definitely be included himself here) are more palatable to a Western audience than, say, Mahasweta Devi or other writers in regional languages. But Khair, despite some disavowals about the excellence of Rushdie etc., is playing the same role as Meenakshi Mukherjee in Chandra's essay in essentially disparaging those authors for not being 'authentic' enough.

I don't think Chandra's point is a small one, and I do think he touches on the Western reception element that Khair raises when he defends himself against the accusation that he has crafted his work precisely for the consumption of Western audiences. I know that he's discussing this from a writer's perspective, as you observe, but I think it's relevant to Khair's point about reception because Khair implies that there is something inauthentic or inappropriate about Chandra or Rushdie being read as Indian writers. I think that Sacred Games is interesting in this respect, with its large number of untranslated words and local references that could hardly be described as pandering to a Western audience.

This is diverging from Bolaño a bit, but I do think the argument is an interesting one, and there could be some parallels with the marketing of South American authors and the marketing of Indian authors to Western audiences. And Chandra's points about cosmopolitanism could apply to Bolaño as well.

what you're saying is really interesting, i'm still not sure i agree, but I have a question arising out of your observatiion, which takes me back to Fausto's original observation/qualification of the Moya article. I think i still think that however much authors may or may not choose to participate in the fostering of public images etc etc, that this doesn't mean that we shouldn't look or think about the things Fausto (in this instance in respect of Bolano) was talking about..and i know you're not for a minute saying that, Funhouse, i'm just asking the question. Plenty of people play with and utilize the stereotypes, structural prejudices that surround them, sometimes in order to subvert, to gain entry, or to gain entry in order to subvert. the fact that they choose to do so, doesnt amount to saying, or making room for an abdication, "well it's all play and marketing anyway, so what's your point?" because play, or Voltaire's wit, or whatever, will at some point meet with truths as lived by others say, that it can't handle and will very soon exhaust it

This post has been edited by oneofmurphysbiscuits on Sep 27 2009, 09:57 AM
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Tatzelwurm
Posted: Sep 27 2009, 10:32 AM


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QUOTE (kline19 @ Sep 25 2009, 07:06 PM)
that's Chandra's old article on the same debate ( i think)
http://bostonreview.net/BR25.1/chandra.html

QUOTE
Dr. Mukherjee then quoted Borges quoting Edward Gibbon, who asserted that in the Koran the word "camel" is not mentioned even once "because the Koran was written originally in Arabic, and the camel is so Arabic that there was no need to mention it. If the Koran would have been written originally in English, the word camel would certainly have appeared in it to show the Arabian connection."


What a load of BS this whole camels-in-the-Koran thing.


QUOTE
[6.144] And two of camels and two of cows. Say: Has He forbidden the two males or the two females or that which the wombs of the two females contain?


QUOTE
[7.40] Surely (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through the eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty.


QUOTE
[11.64] And, O my people! this will be (as) Allah's she-camel for you, a sign; therefore leave her to pasture on Allah's earth and do not touch her with evil, for then a near chastisement will overtake you.


QUOTE
[12.65] And when they opened their goods, they found their money returned to them. They said: O our father! what (more) can we desire? This is our property returned to us, and we will bring corn for our family and guard our brother, and will have in addition the measure of a camel (load); this is an easy measure.
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kline19
Posted: Oct 28 2009, 11:27 AM


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Bresson-like in Bolano's prose:

QUOTE

We're two of a kind, that donkey and me, said Caridad in a dreamy voice. Foreigners in our own land. I would have liked to tell her she was wrong, to point out that in the eyes of law, I was the only foreigner, but I kept my mouth shut. I put my arm gently around her waist and waited. Caridad might have been foreign to God, to the police and even to herself, but she wasn't foreign to me. I could have said the same for the donkey. The cops stopped halfway down the platform. They went into the station bar, first the police, then the guardia civil, and by an auditory miracle I clearly heard them order two coffees with milk and one carajillo. The donkey brayed again. We kept watching him for a good while. Caridad put her arm around my shoulders and we stayed like that until the train came ...

-- The Skating Rink
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kline19
Posted: Oct 28 2009, 11:31 AM


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QUOTE (Tatzelwurm @ Sep 27 2009, 11:32 AM)
QUOTE (kline19 @ Sep 25 2009, 07:06 PM)
that's Chandra's old article on the same debate ( i think)
http://bostonreview.net/BR25.1/chandra.html

QUOTE
Dr. Mukherjee then quoted Borges quoting Edward Gibbon, who asserted that in the Koran the word "camel" is not mentioned even once "because the Koran was written originally in Arabic, and the camel is so Arabic that there was no need to mention it. If the Koran would have been written originally in English, the word camel would certainly have appeared in it to show the Arabian connection."


What a load of BS this whole camels-in-the-Koran thing.


QUOTE
[6.144] And two of camels and two of cows. Say: Has He forbidden the two males or the two females or that which the wombs of the two females contain?


QUOTE
[7.40] Surely (as for) those who reject Our communications and turn away from them haughtily, the doors of heaven shall not be opened for them, nor shall they enter the garden until the camel pass through the eye of the needle; and thus do We reward the guilty.


QUOTE
[11.64] And, O my people! this will be (as) Allah's she-camel for you, a sign; therefore leave her to pasture on Allah's earth and do not touch her with evil, for then a near chastisement will overtake you.


QUOTE
[12.65] And when they opened their goods, they found their money returned to them. They said: O our father! what (more) can we desire? This is our property returned to us, and we will bring corn for our family and guard our brother, and will have in addition the measure of a camel (load); this is an easy measure.

but.. borges made it sound fantastic.. i dunno
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Tatzelwurm
Posted: Oct 28 2009, 01:13 PM


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Yeah, I liked the idea too. That is why my disappointment was so bitter.
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kline19
Posted: Oct 28 2009, 01:31 PM


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biggrin.gif
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kline19
Posted: Nov 1 2009, 09:58 PM


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bored to death sets up a fight plot-point between the writer and critic like in TSD...
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nnyhav
Posted: Nov 7 2009, 01:56 PM


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QUOTE
What isn’t the fault of the author is that American readers, with The Savage Detectives, want to confirm their worst paternalistic prejudices about Latin America, as Pollack’s text says, like the superiority of the Protestant work ethic or the dichotomy according to which North Americans see themselves as workers, mature, responsible, and honest, while they see their neighbors to the South as lazy, adolescent, reckless, and delinquent.

What is the fault of the commentator is the broad brush applied to American readers and projection on what they want.
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kline19
Posted: Nov 16 2009, 09:32 AM


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QUOTE

Few authors were so conscious of their place in world literature, especially in the Latin America world, as this Chilean author: each one of his texts is a double answer—it might be worthwhile to say a slap in the face—to the traditions that obsessed him. Of course, none of that appears in the readings of the American critics. For a Mexican like myself, who also had the opportunity to converse with Bolaño dozens of times, it’s hard to believe that a book as plagued with references to Mexican literary history as The Savage Detectives—in my opinion, a boxing ring in which Bolaño settles accounts with his past—could be read, understood, and enjoyed by a media that totally ignores them. However, that is what happened: his success in the United States was absolute. What does that mean? In the first place, the book is so universal—and so open—that Bolaño’s scholarly winks lose their importance; and perhaps the prejudices and the superficiality of the American reading are huge. Bolaño has not been glorified in English for being Latin American or Chilean, nor because of his ties with this part of the world—he could easily have been Thai or Kuwaiti—but for other reasons, literary as well as extra-literary, and his case is not comparable, in any measure, to other writers of the region—or even Isabel Allende—and perhaps only to Haruki Murakami, the only international literary star capable of casting a similar shadow in English.
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kline19
Posted: Nov 25 2009, 12:08 PM


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QUOTE

"Every time I read that someone has spoken badly of me, I begin to cry; I drag myself across the floor; I scratch myself; I stop writing indefinitely; I lose my appetite; I smoke less; I engage in sport; I go for walks on the edge of the sea — which, by the way, is less than 30 meters from my house — and I ask the seagulls, whose ancestors ate the fish who ate Ulysses: Why me? Why? I've done you no harm."—
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