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Shipbucket Archive


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 Oceanic Escort Vessel
nighthunter
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 06:33 AM


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It was something I threw together after seeing what blackbuck was working on. It was also for my Sea Guard Maritime Security Oceanic Armed escort for supertankers and container ships. So I present to you the Poseidon-class Escort Vessel:

Shipbucket Standard:

(Posted Image)

Sea Guard Maritime Security Livery:

(Posted Image)
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colombamike
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 06:57 AM


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Hmmm

Your ship look like a smaller (but cheapper, best cost effective and expendable) LCS concept
- fast ships
- but with very short range


I think that your ship, with this very shorter range, were not effective in Ocean escort

Better to draw a OPV, maybe nearly similar (and slightly smaller) to the USCG Berthwolf cutter concept.
;)
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navybrat85
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 07:18 AM


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Something like that might work for my AU's Naval Militia (Which functions as a coast guard, and is restricted to within 50 NM of the shore.)
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colombamike
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 07:37 AM


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QUOTE (navybrat85 @ Jul 23 2010, 07:18 AM)
Something like that might work for my AU's Naval Militia (Which functions as a coast guard, and is restricted to within 50 NM of the shore.)

(Posted Image)

50 nautic mile from shore.....NAN......Likely much more (150+)
But it is very clear that this design were, in fact, a much better "littoral combat ships" concept that the current official LCS.

Why ?
Simply because this +/- 80 meters LCS concept were:
- much more cheaper (probably around 150/250 $ million) than the current +/- 120 meters LCS concept (650+ $ million)

- +/- similarly armed (a similar version, but with a 76mm gun is probably a "oustanding" littoral combat ship)

- Much smaller (+/- 80 meters) than the current 120 meters LCS. This means than a much smaller LCS were more effective in short/medium range battle (more difficult to be aiming by the ennemy force)

- With a smaller draught, great for littoral ops

- Pump jets = a subtainable high speed (30+ knots)


A OPV escort need
- a higher endurance/range, for long oversea deployement
- a bigger hull, for better seakepping in high sea
- a slower speed (18/24 knots)

;)
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erik_t
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 01:22 PM


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Cute. Not sure why the role demands anything so fast or low-RCS. (Ideally) two helos and a 57mm is the idea.
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colombamike
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 01:40 PM


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QUOTE (erik_t @ Jul 23 2010, 01:22 PM)
Cute. Not sure why the role demands anything so fast or low-RCS. (Ideally) two helos and a 57mm is the idea.

Yep,
2 helico and one 57mm:
an idea which reached 650 $ + million per copy
:ph43r:
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erik_t
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 03:03 PM


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You fail at thinking.
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nighthunter
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 03:52 PM


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It is designed as an escort for Cargo vessels through Conflict Zones, such as Around Somalia, throughout Malaysian waters etc, areas with a high Piracy Rate.
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klagldsf
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 04:55 PM


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I guess I'll put in my own 2-cents here too, but I want to add a caveat: personally, I'd rather defer to erik_t since I'm convinced he knows more about these kind of matters than anyone. Yeah I know it sounds like I brown-nose to him a lot but my point still stands: he knows what he's talking about. We need more people who know what they're talking about and less people who...well, the mess we have in the Beginner's Forum with a certain two members. Anyway:

When I think of an "Oceanic Escort Vessel" I think of something that ends up being fairly large, or at least larger than the vessel here. In fact I use the OHP as a benchmark since this is exactly what the OHP was originally designed to do - it's more or less a successor to the WWII-style DE. A big reason why it displaces over 4,000 tons is because it needs to accomodate two helicopters in a relatively spacious hangar (Sea Hawks size nicely with mid-size bizjets) and it need a lot of bunkerage. I also don't think stealth is a truly mission-critical item here, since pirates will at best have basic radar detection. In fact in a lot of ways you'd probably want to announce that you're here as a form of deterrent. But yeah, it doesn't really need much in the way of weapons, though a helicopter is still nice. And what's nice about a Sea Hawk is that it has range.

What you have there now though I think it would be nice for a small LCS. I don't remember where I read it, but I remember someone complaining about why the LCS is as big as it is and why it's such a boondoggle is because of serious mission creep, but it doesn't look like your vessel is suffering from that.

Also, I don't like the idea of "expendable" ships since it implies expendable crews, and I don't think that's a viable sentiment anymore. Of course, neither am I a navy planner.

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nighthunter
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 06:49 PM


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Okay, so maybe "Oceanic Escort Vessel" wasn't the best title, lol, but I wanted something with a shallow enough draft to be able to chase pirates with shallow hulled vessels if necessary. Thats why it has a 57mm on the bow and a 25mm aft. This would be an ideal Medium Security Cutter, in my personal and professional Coast Guard opinion. Just change out the 25mm with a Phalanx AMS/AA system. She would work great in the Caribbean against Go-Fasts and other smuggling vessels with shallow drafts and speed.
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erik_t
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 07:16 PM


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Sounds like a solution in search of a problem. You're never going to have a better boghammer-chaser than a ship-based helo.
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klagldsf
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 07:43 PM


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Actually land-based, too. A lot of the Gulf is covered by the NAS's down there. Not to mention fixed-wing assets too.
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navybrat85
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 08:07 PM


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So, just out of curiosity, with two helos and a 57mm gun, what's the minimum size/displacement that such a craft could be? I mean, unless you're using autogyros a Cyclone class hull is probably way too small...but something 100 feet shorter than USS Freedom might be doable, right?
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blackbuck
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 08:16 PM


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I guess it depends on the hull shape and what helicopters you want to cater for...

For instance on the stretch I'm doing to my FSG you got the inspiration for this from I could take a pair of MD530s or Bell 206s but only one MH-60 sized helicopter...

The beam of my original design if it helps was around 14.5m amidships
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klagldsf
Posted: Jul 23 2010, 08:17 PM


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Well it's like what erik_t says. A helio/57mm gun requirement will establish an absolute minimal size (moreso the hangar; the 57mm was specifically designed to go on very small boats) but the mission requirement will dictate a still larger displacement. If you want an ocean escort, like I said, you need bunkerage. If you're looking for the LCS mission, then you'll need space for troops and mission modules (that's at least one thing that the LCS is legitimately constrained by, mission-creep or not; think of them as the world's smallest amphibious assault vessels). If you're looking for a ship that can just have a helicopter and a 57mm gun, then you're probably guilty of embezzlement and/or contract padding.

...that said, the Saar 4.5/Hurrican class (they're both in the database) have a helicopter hangar, and can easily mount a Mk 110. And no, they weren't the result of corruption practices, rather just the rather...weird mentality the Israelis have, and for whatever reason the Mexicans thought it'd be a great addition. So I'd say, that.
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