alot of guys have been asking me in recent times what judges look for in gallery cars that makes them great


so i want a little explanation in the following terms-

stereo or mono
tonality
overall loudness
sub bass
bass
midbass
upper midbass
midrange
upper midrange
hights
overall musical reproduction
obscenities (what word exactly/phrases)

if all the terms can be answered, as well as with what a judge looks for personally, that will be well appreciated

also, in terms of cosmetics, do you all judge based on that?


is there a point system, and how is it implemented?

eg- clarity 6/10

and lastly, is the cost of music important, i mean, does using bess equipment have an effect on judge scoring?







the reason for this, is to offer a general insite to what judging is all about, what you guys look for and to give the average guy an appreciation for the judges instead of booing them.

i'm hoping this opens eyes to all competitors and helps them to understand what judges in shows look for

thanks all for you future input

will also like to hear the comments of regular users, and competitors alike, so suggestions can be made for the betterment of all people in the carshow industry

also, i don't appricate the conversation going into spam,any spam will be deleted, and constructive input is nessary thanks all

and b4 i forget, this related to the judged part of the show , not crowdpleaser



also, sq guys from isaca, i want you all also to make a little input to hel the gallery guys understand what a great, clean and loud sounding system should be like

i wish to save my contributions till the majority answers.

of d reg ppl on this site only riad \ casper \ lon r carshow judges & r qualified to answer this (black primera judges 4 SW shows so he cud answer too if he is online)






*so imma delete yall post & let these ppl handle it ... B)

currently

we go by ear

clarity and tonality plays a big part and accounts for half of the points awarded,
loudness accounts for 1/4 of the points
dispersion and coverage/directivity accounts for the other 1/4 of the points.

This is currently how i judge until we put a format down on paper. This new format that me and casper are currently working on might be implemented for the national finals.
Lon/BP u all can get in on this too so we could have a standard judging format at all shows.

WRT what u asked SSC

cost and cosmetics doesn't count..men running DD's and men running pioneer get the same treatment.

stereo or mono - doesn't count...it's gallery
tonality - covers the entire spectrum, system should be pleasing to the ear and sound well balanced. Proper low midrange support and clarity plays a big part here

overall loudness - WRT bassline midrange and heights...we look for loud with clarity and coverage levels of distortion noticed will change the result.

sub bass
bass
midbass
upper midbass
midrange
upper midrange
hights
all covered by music reproduction and tonality

WRT obscenities....whatever is not allowed in the general media is NOT allowed in car shows. We do make some exceptions tho.

what are these exceptions?

but isn't stereo a big part of sq?, with reguards to overal coverage?

very well noted^^

these exceptions will be words like

ni**a
bit*h
hoe

etc etc


yes stereo plays a big part in SQ but almost all CP vehicles have mono midrange setups.

so will points be given for a stereo setup?

it all comes down to how it sounds...

if the stereo effect makes it sound any better than the mono effect then it will count towards the end result

does any of d loud gallery vehicles have their mids\highs in stereo ? - i highly doubt ....

very very few^^


anyone else?

could someone correctly tell if the music is in stereo? after all mids are pointed in all directions and i find judges dont spend enough times in front of the car...they stand on side and walk around to the other side so stereo doh matter.....So Riad..you guys judge on discretion?

currently thats how everyone judges..

it's totally by ear..


as i said before we are working on a judging format with specific sections and scoresheets, this will come into full effect once we finalize it.

cosmetics, we dont deal with that, all we look for is the overall sound of the vehicle.

what i look for is the most balanced well tuned install where mids match bass and highs match mids in the respective frequency area, there are some guys who enter and their music is loud cause they are on a high level of distortion, now doh get me wrong, distortion isnt just music screaming, its somn some of us consider as loudness and once they get that they good to go.....

next carshow u all go to, check somn, the cleaner a system sounds, it sounds at a lower volume as all the others..... but at the end of the day, even if a man sounds unsatisfactory, if he sounds better than his opponent, hes the winner no matter how bad it sound to a judge

as for who runng stereo still, i still do but i use 4 channel amps for mids, so when i bridge, i still get a left and right channel.

infinite rpm, allyuh fellas in music all the time and u go say somn like that? yuh make me laugh real hard jed. U stand up directly in front of a car and tell me what u hear, then go to all sides and angle of the vehicle and tell me different..... 95% of the competitors request that the judge walk around the vehicle. to get true response from their systems

as for telling if a system plays at mono or stereo, remember, there are certain enhancements in a song that u dont get reproduction on both channels cause all studio instruments (guitars, microphones, keyboards etc.) made to create music are monaural. i used to work in a production studio as a sound engineer and ive listened to some systems out there, and half of the song's instruments are missing cause ppl bridge 2 channel amps and make it mono. anytime u go to play a cd in your car system, especially compe, play it in a home stereo first and youll see what im talking abt. any of you who agree with what im saying here, please say

giving points for each aspect of a competition, that may be a havoc, cause no two ppl will have the same judgement in terms of rating a man out of 5 or even 10, one might be easier to please, or harder.

this system is meant for use by a panel of 2 or more judges

i totally agree with u guys cause right now i guess most judges
do it by ears i support the point system i think once it gets o f the
ground all judges should put the point system in place

What about engine noise?. 90% of the cars have engine noise! :unsure:

anyone else?, would love to hear from streetwise(besides bassmekanix),and other promoters

next thing, from all the opinions stated, can a direct set of a pointing system be used now?



also, what judges, in this case how many should be used?

engine noise is only heard when a system is played at low volume...

what we're really interested in hearing is the system at high volume.

yea we are currently working on the points system,

it can be used by any amount of judges....prefferably 2 and more.

Point taken...Most people bridge to mono to get full power from the amp...also some people dont know about setting gains...and they turn up frequencies most sensitive to the ear...resulting in a harsh mids line...


also If i were to enter single 12...my mids were clean and pleasing to the ear.. and bassline was low and loud...but still i was the best sounding vehicle would i have a chance at a judged trophy?...even though everyone else was louder than me? riad said that loudness was only 1/4 of the points...so i wonder if i could go and try and max out my score for the remaining points...

fellas u know alot of people listens to distortion
so u all know u going to have issues with some competitors

i had the oppurtunity 2 be with casper in a mk show i must
say i like the point system :thumbsup:

yea a clean well balanced vehicle can take judged over a loud distorted vehicle...

but still the vehicle has still be a bit loud :thumbsup:


still waitin on casper's comments

well my bass line loud..mids lacking doh.......i have d power but i need some bigger mids tho...i go try a ting in a timin! Allyuh gonna make d new point system public knowledge?

^^i tink they shud for competitors to kno how to build and what to build for.

^^^yea we would...it is of my personal opinion that competitors deserve to know why they won/lose in their category....if they are not aware then how will they know where they have fallen short??? and as a result, how will they know what to do in order to get their system to win that judged trophy???

although they arent any cast in stone rules for CP...i think the judges in both MK and SW shows are experienced in sound reproduction to a comfortable extent as to know what to look out for when judging a vehicle...riad, and myself for the MK judges....and BassMekanix and Black Primera for the SW judges...we are all exposed to this thing long enough to evaluate a good overall sounding system...we may not be the best but we're far from the worst

all those sections of the sound spectrum you mentioned SSC is all part of judging overall tonality...in reality, a CP system has no TRUE SOUND QUALITY...but instead...CLARITY and TONALITY is what is present...riad was very on point with his response...

on touching on this "tellin competitors where they fall short" issue....u as a judge HAVE to have very good public relation skills....cuz some ppl will feel offended when u tell then they lackin bass or their system is flat depending on how you say it....you MUST remember to be sensitive to these ppl because they are the ones spending thousands of dollars to put music together in their cars to compete in yuh show

the system i implented in the last MK show in skinner park was a last minute decision to help me remember who sounded how as how it was only me judging...that day riad couldnt have made it cuz he damaged his leg...so i needed a quik fix to help me review each system AFTER hearing all in the absence of my fellow judge that night...

usually after hearing all, me and riad discuss and remind each other who was sounding flat and who was lacking body or loudness etc...but seeing that it was me alone...i needed to write it down on paper to remember...some of those categories have alot of competitors...its hard to remember who sounded how...

in a nutshell...we know u all are using PA type speakers so we DO NOT judge "MID BASS"...cuz its impossible for u to have any...midbass, in its true form is related to frequencies between 50 - 90hz...a DJ speaker cannot cover those frequencies effectively...instead...we judge your low mids capabilities...

there's a number of elements we use to determine how u are judged as a competitor...i see alot of ppl argue that they running the dreadest lows and whatever and they should come first instead of all those cars with high bass...all i can say is that what you consider low bass is in fact just regular bass and not sub bass...there is a way to get a car show"low bass" very loud still..i've heard examples of this in green eclipse 1 12" wagon, jesse's 2 12" eclipse accent, and basstronix silver AD wagon

there's so much i can say about this that it will go on for pages and pages...next time u in an MK show and u see riad or myself...hail us out and introduce yourself to us and we'll grant you acces inside the arena to get a first hand look at how we do it...then if u like, you can come back in this thread and evaluate our judging performance...be it good or bad

^^^i like how u straighten out d mid bass , low bass & SQ thing since plenty ppl dont know 1 thing about what d terms mean



very good post .... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

i disagree ; if u listen to most ah dem gallary cars their subs playing all kinda 60 hz n ting easy and cannot play lower than 40 hz most times ...

midbass is really around 80 to 250 hz

i would say most of them lack from about 100 to 250 or so

regardless of where ur filters are at u still may not be getting the frequency response u desire cus of the enclosure / environment the mids are in

great read cas, great point about dj speakers also

but, lets say, i have my midbass crossed at 80hz and the speakers accuratly respond to this frequency, and you hear it, can an acception be made?