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 Is the 'Ribbons' DNA source evil by default?
HellCat Gundam
Posted: Oct 30 2009, 02:06 AM


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The 00 mythos seems to be increasingly leaning towards the notion that nothing but trouble tends to come from the DNA source that Ribbons was cloned from. We have him, Hilling and now this Beside Pain character from the sidestories. Is this just connected to the fact Innovades created from said source have generally been given key roles or is it a bad sign? Tieria/Regene both ultimately sympathised with humanity, Anew did likewise and even Revive showed some concern when 00 Raiser briefly cast doubt in his mind about Ribbons.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the idea. Making every troublesome Innovade come from the same source basically suggests that it's some genetic heritage fault that they all would have inherited rather than specific character motivation.
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hellbore
Posted: Oct 30 2009, 03:56 AM


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00P's final chapter also hint that the two Innovades working under Beside Pain were also of DNA type 0026. So maybe that is indeed what they are saying, that there is something wrong with 0026 types, maybe not that they're evil per say, but whatever process goes into making them is flawed in someway.

I don't know but, it seems that either 0026 is evil or we're missing something.
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EinhanderAstreaMk.I
Posted: Oct 30 2009, 08:22 AM


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I'm more inclined to think that what was originally just an ego problem for the originator of Sequence 0026 mutated into full-blown God-complex in the conversion between human to Innovade.

Of course, I can't fairly blame the genetics; there seem to be some inactive? Sequence 0026 Innovades living quite normally at the end of S2.

I guess we'll have to wait for the Movie or for the next set of sidestories; whichever one will depict a few more Innovades and what they deal with (if at all).
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HomelessGal
Posted: Oct 30 2009, 03:25 PM


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In addition to the idea that "a guy like Ribbons" is an easy villain to throw together, I propose an in-series alternative. Wouldn't it be totally in-character for Ribbons to prefer to rely on Innovado derived from the same base sequence as himself for competent underlings?

The anime needed the Skittle rainbow for variety and ease of recognition for the viewers, but the manga and photonovel sidestories don't have the same problem really. As mentioned we've seen some 'good' 0026ers (Including a main character in Leif), but making Ribbons-lite for a villain is an easy out when you can't use Ribbons.
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SonicSP
Posted: Nov 3 2009, 01:50 PM


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While we don't know how old Ribbons is,and he may not be the first 0026.Wasn;t it said that he considered the creations of Combat Innovade contradictory to the goals of the Plans?I think the S2 Official File 6 mentioned that Ribbons was the first Innovade created.This may not necessarly be true got Ribbons or it could be just his base type was the first,but could it be that all Ribbons will go Maverick if they've lived too long and see how humanity lives in that long period and that only once a 0026 lived for a long period will they go Maverick?May explin why some of them arent as evil from the getgo.
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HomelessGal
Posted: Nov 3 2009, 02:17 PM


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Really, the nature of the Innovado's existence and the environment within Celestial Being that are more likely the cause of predisposing characters like Ribbons to "go bad". Nature versus Nurture is an interesting thing (Both play important roles), but I don't think there's literally an 'evil gene' in base sequence 0026's coding.

Sonic: The reference you were thinking of is that Ribbons was the first of a number of combat-type Innovado that realized that it made no sense for them as superior beings to serve humans.
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HellCat Gundam
Posted: Nov 3 2009, 04:01 PM


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I do agree that there's some definite meat to the plight of the Innovades and it's sad that only really the questionable 00I is doing anything with it. Actually focussing on it in a balanced way and not just giving us Ribbons 'Ah, so I'm God' rhetoric would have added some needed depth in that department. I definetly don't agree that a person is 'evil' by default, but the 00 mythos is doing little to stop that assumption on this matter.

As for Official File- I believe the exact comment made is that it was only a matter of time until such an Innovade rejected humanity and the fact that it was the very first one is telling of what a mistake CB made for themselves.
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T.V.
Posted: Nov 3 2009, 04:53 PM


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@ Hellcat:
Perhaps the movie will give more satisfying answers, as I doubt we have seen the last of Ribbons or the 0026 base pattern type.


QUOTE (SonicSP @ Nov 3 2009, 01:50 PM)
While we don't know how old Ribbons is,and he may not be the first 0026.Wasn't it said that he considered the creations of Combat Innovade contradictory to the goals of the Plans?
I think the S2 Official File 6 mentioned that Ribbons was the first Innovade created.
QUOTE (S2 Official File 6 excerpt by Good Haro/citrinitas668)

P8-11: Enemy Camp

  • The era the Innovado were created in and their tuning varies.
  • Ribbons’ type was most likely borne from an earlier model, and was given qualities which differ from the later types.

P14-15: Innovedo

  • Ribbons was the very first Innovedo produced.
This seems conflicting.
I don't know wether this is due to a translation error on Good Haro's part, or simply an oversight of the staff, but I reckon the former.
Also, the recently launched 00I manga so far tells us that Innovedos were already around 124 years before the start of the second season, and took part in CB's Jupiter missions. (Launched to create the GN Drives, I presume).

Therefore, I think that Ribbons is the first Innovedo produced -of the ones that have appeared in the anime sofar- but that he is based on an earlier 'proto-Ribbons' with whom he shares the same DNA sequence.
If however Ribbons IS the very first Innovedo, he'd be at least 124 years old, and arguably decades older.


As for "nature vs. nurture", this is what Good Haro blogged in the same excerpt:
QUOTE (S2 Official File 6 excerpt by Good Haro/citrinitas668)

P8-11: Enemy Camp

  • The personalities of the Innovedo who were born from then on were regulated to an extent.
  • The biggest mistake of CB and Veda in producing the Innovedo was the construction of combat type Innovedo. “My kind are stronger than humans,” this sort of simple sentiment began to develop, and Ribbons was the first to realize the fundamental contradiction [behind the idea].

P14-15: Innovedo

  • Ribbons was O Gundam’s original Meister, but he knew that according to the plan the Meisters were to perish. Because of that, Ribbons considered surrendering [his position as a] Meister. “I want to see Aeolia’s plan to the end!” he thought. Ribbons didn’t want to die. Even though he didn’t understand that to the end, it was tied to the plan’s failure.

I think that settles it pretty much that Ribbons or other Innovedos aren't born evil, but rather become that way through life.
Ribbons simply rejected being a sacrificial pawn in Aeolia Schenberg's Plan© which left him feeling scorned very badly. He opted to take it out on his own creators and humanity, acting (perhaps childishly) defiant.
I find that quite understandable given the situation yet also a very human thing to do.

The biggest fault I can find is that Innovedos seem emotionally immature, which is understandable given their position. And its known that kids can be very cruel.

The irony of CB being (un)wittingly responsible for creating its own (and humanity's) nemeses, is pretty much embodied by Ribbons.
However the way it plays out, Ribbons being the victim-turned-aggressor rather than evil born, is what makes 00's ambiguity, and Ribbons' character, work IMO.
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hellbore
Posted: Nov 3 2009, 06:40 PM


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From all that it seems that rather than 'Ribbons is evil', the nature of combat Innovades makes them more predisposed to this kind of behaviour, with people writing the stories using 0026 types just as a reference to Ribbons, with no real thought as to what this implies. I'm not sure, but wasn't it said that all of Ribbons' cronies were combat types?
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SonicSP
Posted: Nov 4 2009, 07:57 PM


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Yes,all of the Meister Types that we know of are also combat types.It was one of the official files if I'm not mistaken,somewhere between 3-5.

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Gryphon Turboclaw
  Posted: Jun 8 2014, 09:59 AM


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QUOTE (T.V. @ Nov 3 2009, 04:53 PM)
As for "nature vs. nurture", this is what Good Haro blogged in the same excerpt:
QUOTE (S2 Official File 6 excerpt by Good Haro/citrinitas668)

P8-11: Enemy Camp


  • The personalities of the Innovedo who were born from then on were regulated to an extent.

  • The biggest mistake of CB and Veda in producing the Innovedo was the construction of combat type Innovedo. “My kind are stronger than humans,” this sort of simple sentiment began to develop, and Ribbons was the first to realize the fundamental contradiction [behind the idea].


P14-15: Innovedo


  • Ribbons was O Gundam’s original Meister, but he knew that according to the plan the Meisters were to perish. Because of that, Ribbons considered surrendering [his position as a] Meister. “I want to see Aeolia’s plan to the end!” he thought. Ribbons didn’t want to die. Even though he didn’t understand that to the end, it was tied to the plan’s failure.


I think that settles it pretty much that Ribbons or other Innovedos aren't born evil, but rather become that way through life.
Ribbons simply rejected being a sacrificial pawn in Aeolia Schenberg's Plan© which left him feeling scorned very badly. He opted to take it out on his own creators and humanity, acting (perhaps childishly) defiant.
I find that quite understandable given the situation yet also a very human thing to do.

The biggest fault I can find is that Innovedos seem emotionally immature, which is understandable given their position. And its known that kids can be very cruel.

The irony of CB being (un)wittingly responsible for creating its own (and humanity's) nemeses, is pretty much embodied by Ribbons.
However the way it plays out, Ribbons being the victim-turned-aggressor rather than evil born, is what makes 00's ambiguity, and Ribbons' character, work IMO.

Now that I think about it, this also appears to apply to the Trinities to a significant degree. Johann and Nena each reference it right before their deaths, but isn't it somewhat well-known nowadays that they were raised *specifically* to be Gundam Meisters, and that they were each kept in stasis for the first decade of their lives? Not only that, but I've also heard that they were *deliberately* raised/trained to have the antisocial tendencies they displayed.

Needless to say, that combination of factors puts a fairly ominous light on Nena's forwardness(which comes across to me as the polar opposite of SoMarie and Anew, the only other artifically-created female characters in the animated series), and her brothers' very high protectiveness of her even outside of combat...
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SonicSP
Posted: Jun 11 2014, 11:50 AM


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QUOTE (Gryphon Turboclaw @ Jun 8 2014, 11:59 PM)
QUOTE (T.V. @ Nov 3 2009, 04:53 PM)
As for "nature vs. nurture", this is what Good Haro blogged in the same excerpt:
QUOTE (S2 Official File 6 excerpt by Good Haro/citrinitas668)

P8-11: Enemy Camp



  • The personalities of the Innovedo who were born from then on were regulated to an extent.


  • The biggest mistake of CB and Veda in producing the Innovedo was the construction of combat type Innovedo. “My kind are stronger than humans,” this sort of simple sentiment began to develop, and Ribbons was the first to realize the fundamental contradiction [behind the idea].



P14-15: Innovedo



  • Ribbons was O Gundam’s original Meister, but he knew that according to the plan the Meisters were to perish. Because of that, Ribbons considered surrendering [his position as a] Meister. “I want to see Aeolia’s plan to the end!” he thought. Ribbons didn’t want to die. Even though he didn’t understand that to the end, it was tied to the plan’s failure.



I think that settles it pretty much that Ribbons or other Innovedos aren't born evil, but rather become that way through life.
Ribbons simply rejected being a sacrificial pawn in Aeolia Schenberg's Plan© which left him feeling scorned very badly. He opted to take it out on his own creators and humanity, acting (perhaps childishly) defiant.
I find that quite understandable given the situation yet also a very human thing to do.

The biggest fault I can find is that Innovedos seem emotionally immature, which is understandable given their position. And its known that kids can be very cruel.

The irony of CB being (un)wittingly responsible for creating its own (and humanity's) nemeses, is pretty much embodied by Ribbons.
However the way it plays out, Ribbons being the victim-turned-aggressor rather than evil born, is what makes 00's ambiguity, and Ribbons' character, work IMO.

Now that I think about it, this also appears to apply to the Trinities to a significant degree. Johann and Nena each reference it right before their deaths, but isn't it somewhat well-known nowadays that they were raised *specifically* to be Gundam Meisters, and that they were each kept in stasis for the first decade of their lives? Not only that, but I've also heard that they were *deliberately* raised/trained to have the antisocial tendencies they displayed.

Needless to say, that combination of factors puts a fairly ominous light on Nena's forwardness(which comes across to me as the polar opposite of SoMarie and Anew, the only other artifically-created female characters in the animated series), and her brothers' very high protectiveness of her even outside of combat...

I honestly don't remember any of those things minus that they were raised to be Gundam Meisters. I can't recap the stasis or personalities thing to be mentioned anywhere.

We do know that Innovades DNA was used to make them and that the one Nena was based on was an ancestor of Mina but I don't recall seeing anything much beyond that.
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