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 Exodite Expansion, would anyone besides me be interested?
Bobo The Great
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 05:43 PM





Group: Members
Posts: 81
Member No.: 2,045
Joined: 10-September 07



hello all, ever since i decided to go with collecting Exodites, the question of rules and how to best count as have bugged my mind...
so countless night have been spend sleepless thanks to the idea of a home-made ruleset, so i was wondering, would anyone besides me be interested in seeing and preferably participating in creating an exodite expansion for the exsisting codex: eldar?..

i know numorous sets of rules have allready been brewed, but i feel all that i have seen so far presents changes that appear way too extreme, effectively making a new army, that in most cases, are simply woodelves in space. so the goal is clear, to create an EXPANSION FOR C:CW

but then you might ask, how will i do any different?.. well, heres the thing, i have loads of experience creating custom content for various things (being half of the dev-team for a full table-rpg... and been a large part of designing a full Larp ruleset), i understand the difference between creating a "feel" with game-effects, rather than renaming stuff, how to carefully weight pros and cons for game-balance, and most off all that uniqueness comes from lack of ability, not from adding more (also i can only think in terms of grimdark...)

---

so with all that in mind, i present, the project:
to create a balanced and flavourfull expansion for the exsisting codex: Eldar. with a good rule of thumb that the rules should dictate the models in a way so that they can also be used to count as Craftworld Eldar.

the first step should be figuring out what restriction should be imposed, and how to rules-wise exchange the humble jetbike for a true cold-blooded mount

PS: i feel a healthy discussion of WHAT exactly the exodites are, and in what ways they opperate on the battlefield would be usefull


--------------------
now known as Carnosaur93

The notion that nature can be calculated enevitably leads to the conclution that humans too can be reduced to basic mechanical parts
Bobo The Great
Posted: Apr 11 2012, 02:34 AM





Group: Members
Posts: 81
Member No.: 2,045
Joined: 10-September 07



tough crowd... i know that atleast a couple of people here fancy exodites, so come on everyone tongue.gif

ohh well... my ideas so far is:

1) a new set of special characters, we will need atleast: a "super farseer", a fighting character, a master of stealth, a master hunter/sniper, and a character that rides a mostrous-creature sized mount... all of theese should have the option for a mount, be it not mandatory


2) transports and vehicles should be restricted, iam thinking 0-2 wave serpeants, no falcons, prisms, spinners, or vypers. warwalkers should be exchanged for some kind of medium-sized reptilian mount with simillar options and rules... iam thinking cavalry with T6 W2 with a 3+ save (barely any CC capability), relentless, and scout... as for options ive got no ideas yet, but should be simillar to war walkers, perhaps, twinlinked guns of the same variants as WW's


3) the rules for gun platforms could be left as is, one could then simply put a rider with a heavy weapon in the unit instead of the platform


4) aspect warriors needs to go, (safe for scorpions and spears, with some renaming)... or atleast restricted to 0-1 each, or a total of 0-1 craftworld aspects (akin to what FW did in the corsairs list)


5) all shuriken catapults get exchanged for lasblasters (24" S3 AP5 assault 2). shuriken pistols (except on harlies) should be exhanged for lasblaster pistols (24" S3 AP5 pistol)... i know a 24" pistol is not something commonly seen in warhammer, but its needed to keep the weapon equally usefull to its CW counterpart (so prices wont need changing)... shuriken cannons iam not sure about, iam split between a mandatory (costed, obviosly) exchange to scatter lasers, or a simple renaming of the cannon


6) all wraith units are out (wraithlords and wraithguard) and we will need to find a suitable replacement for wraithguard... i would like ruling out tree-people at once, as this is waaaay too woodelf-ish. perhaps some form of hard-to-control herd of reptiles? (akin to the dark eldar beastmaster units)


7) the lack of vehicles should obviously be replaced by an option to field monstrous creatures in the form of stegadons and the like, theese could be made versitile to fill out both the wraithlord and/or tank gap in the army... in their core, theese will simply be better wraithlords (at a higher cost)

8) now the meat and potatoes... the big make or break...
how do we represent the mounts?... my initial thought is that it grants +1T, +1A, 3+save, the unit becomes cavalry, gains move through cover, fleet, a free lasblaster, and a 12" assault move (functioning like the one eldar jetbikes have now)...
my head is debating weather or not to give them a 5++ (dodge)-save, to counter the lack of protection from boosting... other than that, theese changes should make all the jetbike units a tad better at what they do (living up to their prices) shinning spears become 33% better at charging with +1A, though their lances' shots become very hard to use, now having lost alot of their movement...
seer councils also benefit from this, though iam not sure thats a good thing considering their current power...
more importantly the guardian riders gets loads better, their strenght lies in "kiting" units and utilizing their normally 6" assault move to pull of dirty tricks, now they do it quite better with 24" basic guns to support the cannons (though now only at lasgun power), and a 12" move to pull away further from the target


so well, thats the things ive thought up so far. i would really love to hear some feedback on what is here so far. especially on the mounts


--------------------
now known as Carnosaur93

The notion that nature can be calculated enevitably leads to the conclution that humans too can be reduced to basic mechanical parts
6ix
Posted: Apr 14 2012, 11:52 AM





Group: Members
Posts: 54
Member No.: 1,665
Joined: 19-May 07



I went through weeks of the same problem when I was putting my exodite army together (its on the pip forum, no one ever posts there, so it should still be first or second page)

My response to the problem for a tournament legal army was to use the tyranid book. I know its a bit of an odd choice, but it does sort of work. Especially if you want a fairly monster based army.

Since you're going to have to read an opponent into the army before you play, it could be worth ripping some mechanics from fantasy to handle big monsters. And trying to get a feel for who exodites are rather than scifi-ing up wood elves is definitely the right starting point.

Some ideas:

Monstrous mounts:
Stealing stat lines from the nid book is a start, carnosaur as a tyrant, dragon as a harpy, stegadon as a tervigon. Obviously edit the stats a bit for balance, and change weapons for eldar or 'natural' abilities.
Have hits between the rider and mount randomised as with monsters in fantasy, with the following special rule (i just woke up, so this may need editing).
Absolute Mastery: Exodite nobility spend their entire lives raising and training their dragons, forming a deep psychic bond with their steers and instilling them with absolute loyalty. If an exodite character is killed in battle before their mount, the mount will continue to function normally, with the exception that it will have Rage and Preferred Enemy for the enemy unit that killed its master. No killpoints are awarded for an exodite character with this skill whilst their mount survives, however if both are slain, an extra kill point (3 total) is awarded.
A character with a monstrous mount may never join a unit.

Exodites make use of knight titans and smaller Exo suits for herding dragons, so removing war walkers and replacing them with wasp assault walkers with a single power weapon and furious charge (say 25 points?) Instead of one gun could be a good solution there.

Exodite line troops could be corsairs without the option for packs, but with scout, and ws4 storm guardians, again with scout. And obviously rangers.

Now, the big question, regular mounts. I like your ideas for the most part, however I would be inclined to make a few adaptions. The twelve inch assault 'escape' move, way too good. Being able to evade like that makes t a bit too tricky for folks to catch you. I'd just have it six unless charging. I'm not keen on the spear and guardian mounts being matched either, personally I think that spears would be on more aggressive, faster dragons, and guardians on more docile stable firing platforms. Maybe use the new cold ones for shining spear analogues and old for guardians, giving the former furious charge and the latter relentless.
Stealth would be my solution to the boost problem, exos seldom fight anywhere other than their home planet, so they would be very adept at hiding.

Actually, stealth, scout and move through cover would be a good start for pretty much the entire army. At least everything relatively little.

I love the idea of a ranger special character as well, off the top of my head;
Autarch stats, power sword, custom rifle, no armour but a spectre invun.
Relentless, may 'fleet' in the assault phase, (like a jetpack, and 3d6 pick the highest if he didn't fire), enters play like marbo or similar, with the ability to fire and flee first turn.
Traps: pick an area of the battlefield somehow, if the enemy move into it you may trigger the trap he's placed, either s4 ap5 5" or s- ap- 5" area becomes dangerous terrain for a turn?
Custom rifle: 48" range, heavy 1, 3+ to wound, 5+ 2 wounds, 6+ instant death?

I think that's me out of ideas for now, I need to make a coffee and upload things to photobucket.
Bobo The Great
Posted: Jan 9 2013, 07:40 AM





Group: Members
Posts: 81
Member No.: 2,045
Joined: 10-September 07



sorry for the long "nothing happening-ness" on my part... i think i put the project on hold becouse the new edition was getting close, it seemed that there wasnt much interest in the project, and after a while i just plainly forgot (and 6th edition have not exactly been motivating for eldar)...

anyways, now that the new edition have gotten to sink in abit, i think it might be time to pick this thing up again and continue...


---

monstrous mounts:
i really like their inclusion, but i think as you mention that since your opponent have to read abit into the custom rules, the idea of "less is more" is key. it all really should be kept as simple as possible... by that i mean that it might very much be simpler to just have them share a wound-pool and stats (like any other mounted thing in 40k) explaining how they both die by the rider and its mount being in a wierd sort of mind-bond to function as a single entity (which i think theres even some official fluff about)...
furthermore, i think mostly avoiding theese thigns might be a good idea aswell, so in terms of HQ's we'll have to do with what is basicly an Avatar, the rest will be up to the heavy section and our wraithlord equivilant...

lastly, for my own army i planned a count-as avatar that was to be modelled as the Carnosaur with a very fancy howda on its back, which would mostly be a throne for an ancient high-cheif, inspiring the troops around him and letting his ancient and very well trained companion tear through the enemy ranks. i imagined there being some servants on the howda, too, one carrying the meltagun, having two gunners would be cool for symmetry though.

---

normal mounts:
iam abit stuck on this one... logically we should just use the normal cavalry rules and add some stats, but they honestly doesnt seem to fit huge raptors used to moving through woodland at all (tripping and falling over dead when running through woods, in game terms).
HOWEVER if we were to give most of the army scouts, stealth, "ignore difficult terrain" (rather than move through cover), and the mounts having relentless and a jetbike assault-move. this would pretty much be solved. it does start to feel abit clunky though... as for stats, iam feeling that mounts should not grant improved armor like bikes does, but perhaps +1W intead? (the normal +1T should probably stay)
iam really abit lost with theese... i feel like the more i get into them, the worse of an option they seem, and thats really not good since the exodites should have viable and usefull cavalry, as that is "their thing"
perhaps we are moving into a terretory where we should consider them being a cheap-ish upgrade for regular guardians rather than a troop choise of their own? (as an alternative for wave serpents, in a way)

:EDIT:
yeah... thinking about it again, merging mounted troops with guardians might actually be the best choise, this would be kinda cool and solve a few problems, like rather than relentless, if you have shooty guardians they simply keep their platform, and it would make storm guardians kinda viable, suddenly being kinda tough, having hammer of wrath, and 12" movement. or even just as a way of delivering meltas/flamers and a warlock.
furthermore, assault moves suddenly feel abit less important, since they gain a new role alltogether, being shock or support troops rather than "swoop around and do nothing"-troops


--------------------
now known as Carnosaur93

The notion that nature can be calculated enevitably leads to the conclution that humans too can be reduced to basic mechanical parts
Bobo The Great
Posted: Jan 11 2013, 03:15 AM





Group: Members
Posts: 81
Member No.: 2,045
Joined: 10-September 07



ok, lets get down to buisness, i made the first rough pages for this thing:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=E60C0...AM4KedyrEXlePx8

now a few things to keep in mind here... i think it might be a good idea to shift the basic idea for the project, scratch pretty much every mention ive made to "expansion" as it is much much simpler if we just make something new and armylist-ish obviosly with ALOT of refrencing to codex: eldar

theese first pages are made with the idea in mind that "mounts" make the model relentless cavalry, adding +1T and +1W... it should possibly also rule out the "make difficult terrain into dangerous"-thing that cavalry has. (also there are no assault-move)

the prices for the heavy weapon options on guardians are kept low keeping in mind that they will slow down the intire unit unless the carrier is mounted (unlike weapon platforms), also, they are way overpriced in the craftworld-dex, especially keeping in mind BS 3

---

also many of the prices are somewhat changed, i feel this is called for simply by the annoying numbers used in C:CW (lots of uneven 8's and 3's) and also by the fact that it is very dated, and thus many point-costs seems very internally unbalanced within the codex (and outside it, but i dont wanna start complaining about the overall balance of 40K)

:EDIT: oh, i forgot to mention, i added a new warlock power "Enrage" which grants the squad furious charge, just for more options and viability for storm guardians

:EDIT-EDIT: by the way. any opinions on the ranger-character?.. my idea is to basicly bash together a weak farseer with a pathfinder, and keep him as a support/shooting character (something waaay too rare in 40k i feel)... iam abit split on granting him the option for a mount, though, as right now his main weakness is actually his super-sniper, as he will have to sit still to use it. but granting him a mount would make him relentless, thus making him have pretty much no drawbacks (he is even kinda allright in CC, which seems needed in order to support fellow rangers which should be an obvious and viable option for him)

as allways, any thoughts or input is welcome
(i know i havnt gotten around to all the points you made yet, 6ix, but you made alot of feedback, and i think its better to focus on a few things at a time, for now, the core of the army)


--------------------
now known as Carnosaur93

The notion that nature can be calculated enevitably leads to the conclution that humans too can be reduced to basic mechanical parts
Bobo The Great
Posted: Jan 12 2013, 01:23 AM





Group: Members
Posts: 81
Member No.: 2,045
Joined: 10-September 07



Progress!

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=E60C0...AJlqvQxbw87L2n8

hardly any changes, really, but alot of stuff have been added:

Dragon knights have been added as elites.

Grimstalkers have been added as elites... essentially its a mix of striking scorpions and harlequins with a Aztec/mayan theme in mind

Warriders added to Fast attack, basicly a tiny squad of mounted better-than-guardians with all special weapons, a sorta mobile devastator squad if you will. it might be a boring unit, but i felt the army needed something versitile that can be fitted to plug a hole in your armylist... need antitank? get 3 of theese with melta's and outflank em at 120 points. also they are ment as a place to dump off some of the enevitable spare special-weapon models and actually make them usefull

Exo suit added to fast attack... very simple unit, a slightly toughter and more expensive war walker with an un-replaceable Power lance

Rangers as per C:CW have been added to troops aswell... thats about it for now i think...

as allways, unput much wanted


--------------------
now known as Carnosaur93

The notion that nature can be calculated enevitably leads to the conclution that humans too can be reduced to basic mechanical parts
Bobo The Great
Posted: May 14 2013, 08:56 AM





Group: Members
Posts: 81
Member No.: 2,045
Joined: 10-September 07



Progress part II
First blood

so yeah. ive done a tiny bit more work on the rules today after a long break on my dino-rider space elves, aka: The Exodites

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=E60C0...AD2H69qaHkwWxsQ

first: ive edited some spelling errors around the place

second: taking a mounted lord that carries a laser lance now lets you take one unit of Dragon knights as troops

third: the dragon knights may now take "up to three" Macuahuitl's, rather than "one per three knights"

4th: i made Exo-suits 5 points more costy

5th: completely reworked the Warriders, even changing their name into "Outriders"

6th: i added two new units; The mighty Bright stallion, and the trusty Stegadons, both in heavy support

---

now, iam also looking for some actual input, rather than feedback on what is allready made... i can now say iam fairly satisfied with the "core" of this army, so now its time for crazy specialized stuff...
what iam tinkering with in my head are units such as;

a swooping hawk equivalent (am thinking something harpy-like, but obviosly with jet tech).

dragons, as in literal dragons, or atleast carnosaur-like creatures, either as a hell-drake like combat unit (young smaller dragon that zooms around and spits fire, essentially a flying monstrous creature), or a more supportive avatar of khaine-like unit (old dragon that should at most be jump infantry due to worn wings, if winged at all)

an Eldrad equivalent, Aka super-psyker (something like a high priest/ess or somesuch)

some sort of warrior-character, chaplain-like special rules (maybe a super-warlock character?)...

and last but not least, iam considering the possiblity of a DE Raider like transport, it should be limited, but it would be neat to have the option

---

as allways, looking for ALL the C+C and input... would love to make this a community thing :P


--------------------
now known as Carnosaur93

The notion that nature can be calculated enevitably leads to the conclution that humans too can be reduced to basic mechanical parts
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