AL & AL's Racecar, Tuttech race car build

Let me see, where to start. Well I started to build my own chassis to go play in the sand and cruise around the desert. Then I found out about this racing that has been going on right under my nose in my neck o'the woods, M.O.R.E. in Barstow. So I went out to the races and met with Tut and Pepper, talked to them about there car, looked at lot of other cars and that was the end of me as a spectator I had to do it, and my Dad was hooked as well. I came home and started to think of what I needed to do to my chassis to make it up to the task. It didn"t take long for my dad and I to decide to go with a proven design, so we got a Tuttech chassis. And we're off!!!

Even though I was not to deep into my own chassis I didn't think it would handle the abuse it was going to get. I didn't start it with the intentions of racing it, so some of the main tubing is .095 wall where if I thought i was going to be racing I would have used .120 wall so with safety in mind, we got a race chassis. I may still build it as a play buggy for my uncle, so it's not scrap yet!!! enough about the old buggy.

We will be running a VW engine with an 091 bus trans, 930 cv's with Micro stubs 3 x 5 chromoly trailing arms in the rear and some +5" front trailing arms on a +12" chromoly race beam. The approx. width will be 82" to 85" and it will have approx. 95" to 97" wheelbase. We are hoping to get 16" to 18" of travel, power steering and not sure what else. We use to race ministock cars on dirt oval tracks and dirtbikes together in the desert so we are not new to racing, but we have never raced in a Desert racecar so this will be a new and exciting!!!

We want to thank Pepper and Tut for all there help and hospitality. I'm sure we'll need a lot more help before this thing is on the track. I think we have made some great new friends. You guys have been great.

Thanks, any comments, suggestions, advise is greatly appreciated!!

I will post some pics when I figure it out.

Oh thanks guys!



No worries you post, call, email or come on by if you need anything.


I am glad you guys are going to use a much safer and stronger frame
for your racing. I know it will hold up and last and you will be happy
with it. Now to just get you all the parts you need and then get you some
seat time and some testing when your car is done and you guys will
be back up and racing again in no time. This time it will just be with a cage
around you. You know what they say with age comes a cage.

With all your other racing behind both you and your dad you guys should do
very well at making the car last and getting it to the finish. That is the biggest
step in winning a race.

We enjoy talking with you guys and look forward to having you at the races more and eventually with your own pits and the car there ready for racing.
But don't rush it and no hurry for now come out as much as you can and hang out with us and watch etc. and just absorb the good times until you can race your car.

I am really happy for you guys as your local and that is cool.
I can't wait to have a second car out there on the track.
I was hoping to see Diirks car out there but I totally understand his situation and all so no worries. Well lets hope for next year we will both be out there racing.

Good luck and if you need anything just ask.

It was so nice to meet you guys! Iam glad you are happy with Tuts frame.

I know you will have a ton of fun out there, and if you need anything atleast you know where to find us....

Im not the pro at building the cars, but I can atleast feed and water you guys while you tinker in the garage...

Good luck and see ya at the races!

We are going to put it together as we can, so we can do it right! that will be cool to have two of your cars on the track. We got the car all wiped down today after work so I can get to some of the welding.

I think we are going to focus on the front first and then head to the rear.

can you post pics here? I guessing you have to have them on a host site.

Pepper, food and drinks are a critical part of working on a project, if Tut is like I am I will work all day and not even think about eating!!! not good but it happens.

hopefully Diirk can get his car done someday and race to. Not sure of his situation though. but hope everyhting is OK.

You have to host pics as this site is free...
You can link to minibuggy etc. or pics there maybe?

Sounds good about starting from on area and working to the next.
Good call and Yes I am just like you as I forget to even drink water.


So yes she actually keeps me alive by taking care of me.


It will be very cool to see another version of my style car out there.
Very cool indeed and I can not wait. Hurry up already.

OK, here ismy first attempt at adding some pics

here's the frame, not that you don't k now what it looks like but it is different in my shop!!!!

Wow that first shot is an awesome angle.
Mind if I borrow that pic?

I don't mind at all, if you want the full size image let me know i'll send it to you!!

Thanks and no worries that is a perfect size pic thank you.


You know I also like the side by side pic as it makes the car look sleak and
mean looking from the front with the lower roof line and front end.

Cool.

yeah, I took that one for kind of a comparison between the two. As far as height and width and length arre concerned thay arfe very similar,, but that's where it ends!!

Couple quick questions, What amp alternater do you run? Is a 55amp enough to run all the lights, radio, clean airpump etc...?

We just got back from Pacific with some goodies

thanks
Allen

Ya that sounds about right. I run the Bosch, I forget the amps but 55 sounds right.
I have switched my lights to led and HID so they draw less.
Then inside I have radio, intercom, breather and oil cooler and everything has
been great.

Can't wait to hear more about the goodies you picked up.

I'm looking forward to following this build. Want to live vicariously.
Great choice on a frame!!

Thanks! I think it will go in spurts as money allows, but doesn't that go for everythng now days?

Got some new goodies for it, i'll post some as they are mocked up.

Thanks

well here are my new spindles, trying to upload pics but it being a pain!!!!

Hey Tut here are a couple pics of the spring plates we talked about.





We are going to make our own custom ones!

thanks for looking at it!

Hey Tut can you post a couple of close ups of your rack mount? I have one that looks to be a little bit different than yours but should work fine. I just want to see how yours is done. We bought a saco rack (std), figured we'd give it a shot.

What I am looking for is should i mount these tabs to the top, middle or bottom of the face plate? Here is a picture of the one I have.

Nice!
Pics are worth a thousand words.
As for your front end it is looking great. Once the rack is in and tie rods are made
then we can see how much droop we can add to your car before the tie rods just about touch the frame bars. That will be the lowest your car can go.
Raise your arm to dead center or level. Measure from rack out to the spindle
with spindle straight and you will know what size tie rods you need or will need to make. Leave enough room on each end for tie rods, and the lock nut plus about 5 threads. Measure how much that is on a heim times 2 and take that off the total length of your tie rod... get all that???


One the plate my threaded bung sticks out farther and has a gap behind it more.
Hmmm... interesting. I called and pretty much everyone said they are standard that no two should be different?
Make sure the arm is in line with the tranny rails with a 1/4 inch of toe in for starters can you can adjust it later. Then see how that works out as far as threads etc go. I hate to see you guys have to make your own but I am going to start making my own soon also as those kits are just getting to expensive to buy.


Ok the rack will have to be done in several set ups. So you can check bumpsteer etc. It is best to find center of beam and center of that plate. Line the two up.
mount the two tabs to the farthest outside point you can go. Make sure you can get nuts onto the bolts that come through those holes. You want the plate to be as far back and away from the beam as possible especially with those longer arms
of yours so your rack is closer to being in line with the tie rods.

Then lower the plate down as low as you can go for now and still get bolts and nuts through those holes. Tac weld everything in place there for now.
Make sure actual rack mounting plate is level up and down. Do not lay it back or forward. Level it. Tac it.

Then mount up the rack... so do some good tac welds but in a place they can be cut off in case you have to.
Mount tie rods to spindles.
Cycle arms down until just before the tie rods hit the bottom frame.
You will have to turn your car to see when they hit and then just raise and block it just a hair up from that point.
Block your tie rod with wood etc there. Then cycle up about 18 inches just to be safe.
See how much bumpsteer you get. Measure the spread of the back of the brake
plate on the spindle when it is down and then again when it is up.
You just want to find out how much you have for now. Then you can adjust the mount to remove some bumpsteer if you have to much.

If you get bumpsteer when your down all the way then you can lower the rack if you get bumpsteer when at the top or upward 18 inches then raise the rack.
Pretty simple and you just need to find the sweet spot. As most of the time the car is going to be in the down I set mind up so it is great all the way down and if I get any it will be at the top when I am fully compressed as this is less likely to happen.
Plus it is not going to be to much so no worries.

Keep us posted and any questions I will be happy to help.

My mounts are different and old school here is the closest photo I have of my brothers..


Maybe you can at least get an idea from it. See how wide you try to mount it and how far back you try to go?
If you have to the plates can go inside the bolt holes nothing wrong with that but wider is just for support but your not talking to much and if it is what you have to do to make it right and low enough then try that.


Thanks keep the photos and questions coming and keep up the great work.



Also let me know if you make up a pattern and cut out some of the rear plates let me know how much you would charge to make me a set. I will weld in my own bungs etc. where I want them and what not but just the plates would be nice to have.
Thanks.

If we make our own we will definaletly keep the patterns and propably make up a few extra just in case!! I don't see a problem getting you some.

Thanks I'll try to mount the tabs to the outside and then gusset the center if possible. If not i'll put them in the center as far out to the edge as I can.

Thanks again, I think I have just enough gas to tack these up

Man Am I tired, After working some crazy hours this week I finally got some time to work on the car today. I am about 85% finshed with the welding. I got some material today to make some tie rods for the steering, have you tried to find a 3/4 x 16 left hand thread tap! I will have to order one oh well. Also I got the rack mount tacked up until we can check the steering etc..., the front trailing arm bushings in. Still need the thru rods though but I may get those tommorrow!
We are working on making our own spring plate kit, I'll post pics after we get it done!!! Here are a couple pics, enjoy.

Wow looking good!
Those welds look awesome. Very cool.


Everything is looking great. As for the left hand tap I think Mosebillt bought theirs from Matco.

The front rack and everything is looking good and should work perfect.
Keep it tac welded for now and check everything when your tie rods are done.
Just set everything up how I said for now and you should be good.

Later some support bars from the frame out to the front beam will need to go in once we can check clearance on the coil overs to make sure they clear and do not hit when at full droop. Then the front will be pretty much set to install some front shock mounts and the car can go onto the ground!
Contact Kludge from mini buggy he has some very cool mounts he offers that I think would work great as front shock mounts. If you check his adds you will see them for sell. see if you can get them set up for 1 1/2 tubing on the radius side if not we can open them up with a sander etc.
But they are super nice and cleaner than just tabs. Take a look and see what you think of them when you get a chance.

Well cool keep us posted and ya I am in the same boat as you I think I worked about 70 hours last week all on grave yard shift... dang tired too.

We got some things done to the car and some things started. I finished up the tie rods, think they will work fine. I still haven't got the thru rod yet and still need to bolt things up tight, but things look ok to me so far. Also we started building our own spring plate kit that is double shear. Here are a few pics of todays work.







plus here one of Dad after working on the pivot plates, Also the bolts holding it together are for mock up only, they will be grade 8 when all is said and done.

Oh Wow now I really like the double shear idea that is awesome!

Do you guys have a plasma cutter?
You holding out on me...

Looks like everything is coming a long nicely and it is great to see the work being done on it as I really enjoy watching one of my frames turn into an actual car.
Very cool.

Nice work, it's really looking good.

Please keep us updated as you can.

I wish we had a plasma cutter!!! He used a shear and a belt sander, ex aircraft guy very meticulous.

As far as the double shear, I saw a picture of something similar and liked the idea so we made our own.

we're gonna keep pluggin along as we can!!

Also if you do the side step and small nerf type bar you can tie that into it as well.
That's what I did on my set up before the one I have now on Kitt.

Wow I am totally impressed now that he built all that with no plasma...
Nicely done.

Definatley gonna add the step, but I don't think I will tie it into the pivot plate or double shear part of it. It will be close though. Gonna try to finish up that side Sunday.

OK, we finishedup the the rear spring plates last night. we are getting all the hardware today to bolt it up tight so we can move on to the next step. Here are a coouple pics.






Also took my sons fishing today and my youngest is the only one to get any bite and he caught one as well. I had to help a little but its his fish. Funny thing is I just told the boys the first guy to catch a fish wins a dollar and BAM! he gets one!!!

Wow that's a pretty big fish for the little lake.
Way to go and did he get his dollar?


I like the plates and double shear set up. Very well done and looks
great. I think it will add a lot to the strength and lasting/holding power
so your car will not fatigue or break later on. Very cool.

Yup, I think they turned out pretty well and they are way stronger than the stock ones.

He dot his dollar and then spent it at DisneyLINE yesterday!!! If you think about it everything is a line there.

Line to park
line to ride tram to get in park
line to buy ticket
line to enter park
line to do anything inside park

yup its DisneyLine!!!

The kids had a blast!!!

I need to take your son shopping with me, because if he actually found something at DisneyLine (ha ha ha ) for 1.00 then I am totally impressed

Good job, and I give him even more credit, cause I wont even TOUCH fish! Yucko.... When ever I caught them as a kid I made my brother handle them.

The car is coming along real good...Nice workmanship. I am not too mechanically inclined but I atleast know what some of the things you are talking about!

HAHA I wish he found something there for only a buck!!! He spent his plus mine .

Thanks we are trying to make it as good as we can with our budget. Sometimes that means we make stuff ourselves. Cause we got more time than money!!!

He would touch the fish but not the worms which amazes me cause he normally just picks all kinds of bugs up!!

We got some more stuff!! I came home from work early and was sitting in my chair when my dad comes in and tells me come and help me. So I get outside and he's got goodies. Check it out....









We got some pro-x hubs with wilwood brakes, BTR wheels with champion beadlocks on 30 x 9.50 x 15 BFG's. A few other goodies for later as well.
We have the rear brakes on order, but I think it's looking good.

VERY NICE!!! Makes me want to start a new project. Keep sending the pictures mike

Thanks!! Hopefully we will be able to get the the coilovers next month and make it a true roller!!

That is sweet! I can't wait to see it finished.

OH wow that is looking so nice I want to rebuild Kitts frame into a new one now.
Dang that is super nice!!



You guys are doing an amazing job.
Keep up the great work and keep the posts coming in with the great pics!

Man I can't wait to see your guys car out on the track.

We went and got some more parts today! We got the rear Pro-x micro stubs, some seats, drive flanges, some steering parts trans mount. I didn't really care for the rack mount so I got a different one that I like better. Here are a few more pics with the rear wheels on.













edited to add brake caliper.

Well I took off the old rack mount and mocked up a new one. The new one is beefier and looks better to me.

OH ya I like it. Everything the mount, the car, brakes you name it.
I like it!



Where did you get the brakes? I have not seen them yet.
I like the all aluminum brake caliper that thing is cool.

Nice. You guys do great work.

I think it's coming along nice and looks good also! The front and rear brakes are Jamar Pro-X kits. The front came with the wilwood brake caliper and the rears are Jamar 4 piston I think, there's no name on them. We've had good luck with Jamar so we decided to give them a try. The Stub axle is big!!! at least to us we've never seen them before but we were like Wow look at this thing!!

We been getting stuff from everywhere, pacific customs, mooreparts, kartek and even some online places. We make our own parts when we don't like certain things, cause we got more time than money!!!

on the rack mount that I just put on, I made a new verticle piece the put the rack about 3/4" farther away from the beam. pic below.

We appreciate all the help from you, and we'll need some more pretty soon. We're gonna get the shocks/axles soon hopefully and then we should be able to come over and make it a true roller! Things will slow down after that, money tree is losing it's leaves!!!

Not a problem with all the input and I will be more than happy to help with the shock set up and wheel travel.

Check to make sure by moving the mount back you will not end up pushing the tie rod into the uprights on the front outer fire wall and bulkhead bars.

Hard to tell because shocks are not on but cycle the arm up and down and turn the wheel side to side and make sure the tie rod does not hit the frame.
This is the only thing I worry about with those longer arms.

Anyways very cool and great work on the tabs and pieces.
I like the stub axles and brakes very good looking and sounds good to me.



We will need to measure you up some axles so you can get them and some cv's and then the shocks and we can cycle the rear and set up your shocks and get you all the wheel travel we can.

If your hubs are in and your arms are connected and are square with the back tranny and motor bars level the arm so the 930 cup on the micro is level and straight out from the cup on your transmission.
Then using say two pieces of sprinkler pipe one piece that will slide firmly into another piece take those and put them inside the two cups until they touch inside of each.
Mark the tube then compress it remove it and then re open it to your mark.
Measure total length from end to end.
Then minus about a 1/4 to 1/2 inch off to be safe depending on the nearest half or hole number as it is cheaper to buy axles in half inch marks. They are usually also in stock so price is better. That will be your axle length we will use to set up your car. Longer is better but they can not hit.
That's about all the science there is to a do it at home axle sizing class.


Also the race prepped and light end cv's can get more angle.
They have the lower cost empi or something ones that they say work great for VW size motors. Not sure have not tried them.
Or the American serious race prep and lightened with 300m cages etc.
They are over 200 a piece so up to you. They are what I buy. Either way you will need those type because of the degrees your running etc.

Ok sounds good and no worries getting to a roller is one of the best parts.
Next is a body. Those two I really enjoy. Paint is fun also.

Well cool and let me know when I can help out.

The tie rods do not hit the firewall Tubes but they do hit the bulk head tube running up to the beam. I have the rack mount raised as high as I can and I thik I am getting about 13" travel when the wheels are straight. We are fabricating some spacer that will go on the spindle tie rod mount that will allow us more travel even when the wheels are turned. I know this is probably not the preffered way but if we want more downward travel it is what I think we will have to do. Anyway we are making a few different height spacers so when we come over to set up the shocks we will have quite a few different options. I will also bring the original rack mount pieces, then we will have lots of options.

move rack up, down, in and out
put different spacer on spindle tie rod mount.
So we should be prepared when we get there.

We were going to get race preped 930 CV's but not sure about brand, does it make a big difference?

I have a friend who works with shock springs and he is checking to see if he can help us out with the springs, after I hear back from him we will be ready to get the shocks, then wait for axles and cv's then come and see you guys!!!

Who has the best deal on Fox piggy back shocks? I have looked around on the internet and they are pretty much the same everywhere. I Need to call kartek and see what they get for them.

Talk to you soon.
Allen

Hmmm none of my other cars hit the top bar angled down bar... hmm.

They all go down further and not up as much. Longer arms maybe throwing things off as those are well different length than any of my others.

We will work it out and yes the raised spacers are what you do.
Here.
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/AC425125S.html

This is what you do to go down further which sounds like what your making.
3" longer guys so that would get you 16" of travel. Getting closer.
We will see what we can do.

Moving the rack back even more maybe the way to go if it does not hit as this will move you further out away from the beam where it hits the bar coming down.

Also that bar can be cut and shortened several inches make the angle much greater. Would take about an hour to cut clean and do but we can if that is all that is holding us up. Plus we can remove it and do like we did on my brothers 9 car and come from the center of the car and go out. That may help?

No worries and we will get it all worked out for you.


Hmm as for shocks I shop through Kartek.
I just always have. Prices of everyone's are close. On minibuggy.net I think
Doug Heim says he can get you great prices as a distributor so maybe check with him. Not sure on shipping etc. That's cool about your buddy helping with springs.
Very cool.

I do not know the difference off hand of the actual power the two manufactures can handle etc. They both I think say the same but the American made ones people want as they tend to not break and the Empi ones people are worried they might break as the metal they say comes from China? Not sure but the price is what is massive. the over 150. dollars in price difference per each one saving you 600 dollars!
You don't get lightened but you get the chromoly cage, more angle etc.
Here is the American 220.00 dollars
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/AC501930HD.html

And empi for 64 dollars
http://www.pacificcustoms.com/AC501930HDE.html

Supposed to handle same power but one is not lightened and made from out of state metals that are possible from China etc.

Tough choice but when it comes down to money and racing a sportsman buggy you can go less cost and try it out. Your just having fun and that is what you must keep in mind.
If you can afford it and worry about having trouble buy the best.

I will leave those tough choices up to you.

You might consider FOA for the shocks. They are getting good reviews and are much cheaper... http://f-o-a.com/shop/

Thanks.

Sorry, The tie rod does not hit the tube that is angle down to the beam, in the up position it is fine. It hits the bottom outside frame rail when it in the down position, that is why we are making the spacers for the spindles. This was expected at some point anyway, we are just trying to get the most out if that we can. find a mid point and see what we get.

I have looked at F O A. And am not sure what we are exactly going with. I have never tuned any shock internals, but if they are the same as the FOX they may be an option. I haven't priced them though.

thanks
Allen

You can price them on their website.

Yeah I went and check them out again last night. Thanks.

I know nothing about them but like Diirk says people are saying good things about them and mostly that they are much cheaper.

Either way you can learn or pay a small fee to have your shocks valved no matter
how there set up. So don't worry about that.

Also if you go bypass on the rear it should handle all your valving unless the back coil over is really far off then it may need valved once and then the bypass will
be able to adjust your ride from there.

Oh ya about the tie rods my car actually just rubs the bottom bar when I am fully turned and fully drooped and my spindles have the spacers they are just built in and welded onto the arm.
You need those for sure to get all the wheel travel you can.

That's cool were not sure yet which ones we will go with but I like the fox. Just may have to wait a little longer for $$$$. Anyway, We made a few different size spacers already and I may weld them on the spindle or just put a good tack weld on them, after we figure out which ones to use.

I would guess mine are 3 inch and that is what all the shops seem to sell
is the 3".

Fox are great but the lower cost on the FOA sounds great.
We can probably work around the 2.5 difference but that will make the coils
3inch so making the actual coil spring closer to the front beam.
We can lean back the upper shock mount to not hit and all should be fine.
It is what it is. Maybe a hair less or maybe nothing.

Up to you and the lower cost is nice.
I talked to a friend and he is checking and asking a buddy of his who uses them how they have been etc. I will post up what I find out.

thanks, We talked about it today and decided to get the fox shocks. sorry about all th extra stuff.

I just have one more ? about the front shock do I need to get the 5/8" or 7/8" shaft? I know they only have the 7/8" for the 12" shocks. The only thing i'm not sure about now is piggyback or remote res. I read somewhere that the remote res are a little more efficient. and they are a little cheaper also.

We are making 1" , 1.5", and 2" spacers for the tie rods, then you have to add the heim on top of that for the total measurement.

thank again
Allen