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Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance! (Read 85 times)
Kevin

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Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
12/31/07 at 13:19:46 HI all!

I am preparing a page which compares various ships and technology from different science fiction shows!

Andromeda is one of them.

While Star Trek has Trekkies and Star Wars has Jedi (or Warsies), we haven't really had anyone examine in any close detail the physical limitations and applications of Andromeda tech!

Yes, I know there is some information out there, and I've decided to try and organize it all!

You will find my major updates on my site and I will also save copies on my harddrive for my own website comparison.

http://z11.invisionfree.com/Randomness_is_...g/index.php?c=8 is going to be a temp home.


So let's begin with what I need help on.


I do not own any Andromeda dvds.

Yes, it is sad.

So what I need help on is the whens and wheres of certain episodes. Let us begin:

Quote:
Bucky Cables
Description courtesy http://en.androwiki.st-city.net/index.php/Bucky_cable :
A Bucky cable is an intelligent harpoon, which tracks its targets by the instructions of the computer on board of the firing ship. It is primarily used to recover any kind of salvage or to haul damaged ships. It consists of high-strength materials, based on Nanotechnology and is as a result hardly destructible.

The Maru and also the Andromeda Ascendant have such cables installed.


Now for me to determine the strength of the Bucky Cables I have to find a real world comparison. This is usually difficult. However, as it stands, the Bucky Cables of the Eureka Maru have a real world comparison. Said Bucky Cables were used to pull the Andromeda Ascendant from the horizon of the black hole. If I have the location of the Andromeda, I can determine how much weight/stress was exerted upon the Bucky Cables when pulling the Andromeda free of the Black Hole's gravitational field. This information will tell me how much stress was placed upon the cables. This is where I need help.

1. Was there any mention in the episode exactly how far away the Andromeda was?

2. Was there any mention in the episode of exactly how far away the Eureka Maru was?

3. How many Bucky's were attached to the Andromeda?

4. How many cables broke? I seem to remember a couple broke free but I may be wrong.
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Seamus

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #1 - 12/31/07 at 15:56:33 There were different counts in the show (mistakes) there were 7 Bucky Cables that shot out of the Maru, then there were 8 on the monitor screen inside the Maru, and on the outside view there is 6, then Rev said that one of the cables lost is cable 10. So you can take whatever numbers from that you wish. Then there were a total of 4 cables lost. So now you have some numbers to start with even though it's a little sketchy.
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Kevin

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #2 - 12/31/07 at 18:09:47 Quote from Seamus on 12/31/07 at 15:56:33:
There were different counts in the show (mistakes) there were 7 Bucky Cables that shot out of the Maru, then there were 8 on the monitor screen inside the Maru, and on the outside view there is 6, then Rev said that one of the cables lost is cable 10. So you can take whatever numbers from that you wish. Then there were a total of 4 cables lost. So now you have some numbers to start with even though it's a little sketchy.
some of that can easily be explained as being visibility modifiers.

Ok so we're absolutely sure that the Bucky Cables were at their limit of 98-100% strength when pulling the andromeda out, and that they could still survive with 6 cables. So now we need to determine distance of both ships from the black hole, as well as the general size/weight of andromeda.
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Seamus

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #3 - 12/31/07 at 18:43:00 Size
· Length: 1301m
· Beam: 976m
· Height: 325m
· Inertial Mass: 96,408,876kg

that ought to help a bit
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mizor

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #4 - 12/31/07 at 20:27:43 What mass are you going to use for the Andromeda? 1 Kilogram
or 96,408,876 kg?

What mass are you going to use for the stellar black hole? Estimates are that they range from around 3 to 20 solar masses. It seems to me that you are going to end up with a pretty big span of ranges depending on what figures you choose. Or you'll end up in an endless argument as you'll have to explain why you chose some particular figures and not some other ones.

Did the cables actually break or did they simply loose their connection to the Andromeda?

I'm not sure how far I would trust Andro Wiki. Someone over there thinks Antares is a planet and according to them the Renewed Valour is an Eternal Vigilance class LRS yet according to the writers, I'll give you a link to the post if you need it, The Renewed Valour 'was supposed to be a DSA but the CGI team screwed up and gave them an XMC instead '
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Kevin

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #5 - 12/31/07 at 21:10:11 All very good comments. Well, the mass I will use is the higher number, because then I have to use the general increase of gravitational pull against the mass of the ship. The 1kg business is with regular space travel.

With black holes it's the benchmark that I'm looking for. Regardless of the size or age of the black hole, it's the location of the andromeda in relation to the event horizon (etc...) which would have standard gravitational pull of black holes

I just can't remember how far in andromeda was or if there was any specific mention. If there isn't any specific mention then I'll just have to find out the theorized time distortion in relation to black holes on my own
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mizor

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #6 - 12/31/07 at 22:17:53 Yes but in combat mode Andromeda would be weighing in at 1 KG. Relationship of the Andromeda to the event horizon is going to be directly related to the mass of the black hole. Smaller masses equal smaller even horizons. Additionally you are going to have to show that the writers actually calculated the scenes and distances described for scientific accuracy otherwise it's going to be written of as a plot contrivance. I bring this up because I can show you several references where the writers said 'OOPS! the graphics aren't accurate.'

Andromeda's time distortion was described as an interaction between it's AG generators and the black hole's gravity.

Anyway I'll stop debating and try to be more useful. Here are some links to the some things the writers have commented about concerning the show, not all of which was mentioned. on the show

Slipstream preservation project there is a lot of good information here, but you'll have to read a lot of posts; key names to look for are are Paul Woodmansee, Zak, and Ashe as they were respectively the science adviser and part the original writing team.

Andromeda's Battle Blades A description of how the Andromeda's battle blades operated, something never explained in the show.

Atomic Rockets Lots of good information here, but you might want to verify the math or check the links the writer provides

Star Wars vs Star Trek Check out the technology and essays sections.

online chat with Paul Woodmansee
He discusses some of the weapons used in the show and especially what happens when an andromeda universe missile hits it's target.

A link to some other links here on our site

I strongly strongly urge you to join up on ExIsle. Zack Ash, Paul and Mr Woolf all hang out there and answer fan questions. There are several other very knowledgeable individuals over there who might also help you.

I'll see if I can find the quote from Ash about 'the science of slipstream',
Here it is on page two of the interview
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Kevin

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #7 - 12/31/07 at 23:56:11 I'm going for the strength of the cables. The Andromeda's systems would've been disabled, she would've weighed the full amount. Distance and black hole size means nothing when we're talking about constants. The event horizon at a black hole is caused because of a universal constant based on gravitational pull. There's no wavering from that.

Yes for many other things I'm going to have some problems, but I forsee very little problems in determining bucky cable strength with this method


edit: and yes ty for those resources
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mizor

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #8 - 01/01/08 at 01:38:43 I don't believe it was ever stated that all systems were disabled. The AG system had to be working since no one was in free fall when the Maru crew boarded the Andromeda. If the Andromeda had been without AG you would have had a 'zero G' situation since it was orbiting the black hole. Let's see the equations you're using. You're welcome for the links.
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Kevin

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #9 - 01/01/08 at 08:30:16 are you sure about that?

hrm, well if andromeda did have her ag field on then maybe she was 1 kg at the time of suspension. Although I have to say that has a good chance of making the bucky cables extremely weak. I'll have to put together the math first before I'm sure one way or another.
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mizor

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #10 - 01/01/08 at 10:50:46 When you're in orbit you're in free fall. They had gravity when they boarded the Andromeda so either the Andromeda was accelerating at a constant 1g or the AG was working. Also the artificial gravity was working as the ship went dead in time since people were falling down.

As far as working out a distance from the black hole, we know the Andromeda and the Maru had to be outside their Roche limits from the black hole, otherwise tidal effects would have torn them to to pieces. Why don't you calculate the Roche limits,(you'll need to know the mass of the black hole) if they are outside the black holes event horizon you will have the minimum distance the ships had to be from the black hole. For the moment we will ignore the Roche limits of captains and crews. Also remember that if the Andromeda was orbiting the black hole , orbital mechanics dictate that if the orbital velocity is slowed down the orbiting body will drift further away from the parent body. Maybe all the Maru had to do was use the bucky cables to slow the Andromeda down and let orbital mechanics help them out. That might not put as much stress on them.

As far as the mass of the Andromeda goes, we don't know if the 'mass nullifier' was operative, inoperative or only partially working. So you can pick any number you want to. I was trying to make the point that your calculations were based on a huge assumption which may or may not be correct. I would recommend that when you do post your work that you list the assumptions you are making and why you are making them prior to showing the actual work.

If you start looking closely at the data on Andromeda's missiles and putting the pieces together with what you see on the screen you're going to end up going "WTF?" . Go ahead an do the work but when you encounter areas where the show isn't consistent from ep to ep, or data from one source contradicts data from another source explain what you decided on and why.

Investigate the characteristics of diamond aggregate nanorods. I had a conversation with a chemist, about strength of materials, most of which went over my head, but what I was able to take out of it was that as far as science knows the carbon-carbon bonds are the strongest you're going to find in the normal universe.
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Kevin

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Re: Science of Andromeda Project, need assistance!
Reply #11 - 01/01/08 at 21:04:26 Those are very good suggestions. I'll try and see what I can come up with over the next week and post as soon as I can to see if it looks right

[Potato]

There's no way I'm reading all of that. It would mean I'd lose 30 minutes of my life. ok 45 minutes.

[Marshmallow]

it's not for you potato.

[Potato]

oh gee thats nice. lol