The Forward shortlist, Here it is

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/1...oetry-shortlist

Who'd a thunk it? Sean O'Brien on the shortlist! Didn't Don Patterson have a collection out this year?

Nothing much of interest...

A couple of impressive coups there for Charles Boyle's small press CB Editions. Nevertheless, I think it's debatable whether poets like Nurkse, from outside the UK and Ireland, should qualify, just on the basis that their books have been published here. There are lots of prizes in the US - and I remember I wasn't eligible for any Canadian prizes when I published a book in Canada.

Just came across this - http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/...try-prize-women

Does geography mean anything nowadays?

If there's a book published in the US, and I want a copy of it, there's ways and means of obtaining it quite easily.

Does geography mean anything nowadays?

If there's a book published in the US, and I want a copy of it, there's ways and means of obtaining it quite easily.

God yes, I've definitely felt penalized during my time in France for not living in the UK (where poetry opportunities are concerned).

Rik, the US <---> UK divide can be bridged quite easily, as far as purchasing (which is not the only concern!) goes, but this is not true of all conceivable pairs of countries. Try publishing a book in Singapore and getting that to an international readership. Anyway "easily" does not always mean "affordably", does it? Affordability is at least as relevant as ease.

That aside, how can it ever not matter, on an other-than-practical level? Poets exist in communities. I think there's value in members of a particular community recognising each other's achievements. If the Forwards were restricted based on residency or some other requirement, I would not think it odd. (Which isn't to say that I do think it odd that no such requirement exists. I think having and not having a residency requirement both make sense--they just make for different sorts of prizes.)

I accept, when it comes to building a (publishing) career in poetry, I see the world very differently from most other people. I'm happy to lose that argument.

Poets living in communities ... 'kay, though only up to a point.

To be honest, while I am English born and raised, and I live in London, I rarely participate in the "UK/Irish poets' community" (assuming such a beast can be constructed) - my community exists almost entirely online and doesn't really bother about nationalities or borders.

I've never considered the Forward prizes to be relevant to me. But now they've started hinting that their remit runs beyond the borders of these islands, should I take them more seriously?

I don't think they've started hinting that, Rik. I think (though I stand to be corrected) that the Forward, and the T.S. Eliot, too, have always been open to books by foreign writers, provided they have been published in this country. And I have no problem with that if the book was first published here. But the Nurkse was first published in the US in 1993! What is the sense of putting it up for a prize in the UK in 2011?

I don't think they've started hinting that, Rik. I think (though I stand to be corrected) that the Forward, and the T.S. Eliot, too, have always been open to books by foreign writers, provided they have been published in this country. And I have no problem with that if the book was first published here. But the Nurkse was first published in the US in 1993! What is the sense of putting it up for a prize in the UK in 2011?

I'm happy to stand corrected. I agree that it (including the Nurske book) does seem to make a nonsense of the Forward elegibility criteria.

How does this affect a publisher (like Salt?) which may choose to publish a poetry collection in electronic format on a worldwide basis? Is the Forward prize limited to hardcopy publications only?

What constitutes a hardcopy publication nowadays? Listing in a catalogue? Placement on a bookshop shelf?

Rik: Certainly not everyone situates themselves geographically--I don't think you're even that unusual in this. I merely submit that regional prizes will make sense as long as there are many who do, that's all. It is perhaps not so different from a prize for self-published collections of poetry, or for collections of rhyming (or experimental, or visual, or. . .) poetry, collections of poems about sports, etc. Each of those prizes would serve a community of readers and writers for whom those particularities are defining affinities.

I definitely overstated when I said geography always matters--I should have said it will never be irrelevant (i.e. it will always matter to someone). Sorry.

Matthew, that's absurd. I hadn't realised this wasn't the book's first publication. Very odd indeed.