If we take all the emotion out of the last few posts, I think that our weak bylaws are the biggest culprit. Interpretations can be made by the generalized statements made in our current bylaws, but then we get in the middle of where we are today. The verbiage should specific enough AND be consistant with the information book, which today they are not the same.

I would suggest to Phil that he personally get involved in creating a bylaw committee to review the current copy. When I took over as president 8 or 9 years ago, we went through the bylaws completely and rewrote the words specific enough so that all committees new exactly what they had authority to do and there was no interpretation needed. (my committee reference is just one area that I think needs to be reviewed and expanded upon) I'm not sure what has happened to the version when I was president, I've asked that question on several instances, but I think that will enable the BOD to have something SUBSTANTIAL

Well, if I knew exactly how to use this tool, I wouldn't have hit the wrong key and posted without finishing my thought....it's rough getting old....

The end of my post was that it would give the board something substantial to fall back on.

I hope that some of the other users of this site who have been around as long as I have also see the need for the club to reorganize the bylaws.

I would be more than happy to help. Most of you know I'm a volunteering fool and I haven't help out the club lately.

If the bylaws were written correctly, there wouldn't have been any issue with Barb and Bill. They have both been around long enough and have been loyal enough to this club to live by the rules. But, because of interpretation, we are in the situation we are today.

Thanks for following along, I encourage ALL members to read the bylaws. It was enlightening to me when I took over as president as the amount of authority the bylaws gave our past board of directors. This club is ALL about our members and without the bylaw protection, who knows where we could end up.

Kim Armstrong

Kim has the right idea. Maybe it is time to review existing by-laws. Any slight error or any word missing can change the total interpretation by different parties. I would also like to say that I have over the years been entagled in disagreements with many of the OLD board over the years that I was treasurer. We always remained friends despite our differences. Everybody needs to chill and regroup. Its only darts folks.

Diane

Well stated.

I do believe that we should look at the By-Laws, we should still make sure that we do not get carried away with how specific we get. Part of the issues that arose is because of a literal interpretation of the By-Laws. Keeping everything to the letter of the law creates many problems, as we have found. The possibility also exists that some of the language in the By-Laws handcuffs certain decisions.

Not to get all preachy and bring everyone back to high school, but one of the biggest reasons our country's constitution just recently turned 220 years old was because it was written with the intent of open interpretation, something our Supreme Court has had to determine from time to time over the years. Our state's constitution, on the other hand, has been scrapped and rewritten multiple times (and probably needs it again, but I digress).

I'm personally a firm believer in following something by the spirit of which it was intended, and strongly urge all of our members, BOD, Chairpersons, and just plain darters alike, to keep in mind. I have in the past questioned some rulings and asked past members of the board, received a valuable explaination in return, and remembered such discussions when I've been approached about other league topics.

Some points do need further explaination. All I am asking is that we do not get carried away.

Dboy

I agree with you 100%. You wrote it beautifully.

The area the caused the most confusion was due to the lack of any information. They should be detailed enough to not cause confusion.

I'm sure the board will do the right thing. Now we just wait and see.
Kim

Last time I checked, this league is not really a non profit organization for tax purposes in the state of Ohio. Somehow the paperwork needed to procure this was not sent in or a mix up happened.

Maybe, things have changed or maybe things have been updated. I hope so. I would hate for the club to be hit with with unpaid taxes and possible penalties.

Just maybe something that should be checked into.

If I can help in any way regarding this let me know.

The taxes are paid every year by the treasurer. We get a bill and they pay it. The league is in no way in jeopardy of anything in the way of taxes.

As for the bylaws, nothing has changed in them since they were instituted and voted on when Armstrong was president. Atleast not while I was president they weren't changed, I can not speak for what happened during Kelsey's duration...maybe someone can enlighten us on this issue.

Kim, if Phil calls you about looking into the bylaws...lmk. I'd be happy to be on the committee to help out as I was the last time they were done.

Maybe, I don't understand. I thought the reason to be classified as "non profit" meant you were excluded from paying taxes.

If the league is non profit way are taxed being paid? This money could be put to better use.

Maybe, someone could research this.

Kim, you backed Phil with your full support to be voted in as new President in the previous election.

Why, now is there a question about by-laws?

Your candidate of choice, at the time seemed to have everything covered.


Maybe, shed a little light with all so the real story comes out?

Or maybe put out something on the weekly standing sheet so all members can be aware of this.

Surely, you as a past President can get something out there so the membership can know what is going on beyond this forum that really is read by a selected few.

as much as you try, you aren't going to start anything.

I still back Phil. If they bylaws were more specific on the topic of committe chair responsibilities, I believe it would have stopped an issue that occured a few weeks ago.

Quit trying to read anything else into my posts. You won't win.....

Let's all move on, learn from whatever mistakes were made and just play darts!

I'm with Mike. How many of you pay your mortgage or rent playing darts? This is a game that breaks up the middle of the week. Once we forget that, it becomes a pain in the a*&.

We all make mistakes, but the major issue it seems is a persons ego. Everyone has one. It's the person that can move on and realize it is just darts (a GAME). If you have a hard time dealing with decisions, than stop playing. It's not that hard. Anyone that keeps trying to start issues between members of the board and players, I feel sorry for you!

To all that keep this league together, Thank you!

God, this is a very, very, small organization to enable its members to have fun. I don't see all the problems with bylaws.

Members just want to have fun playing darts.

Most don't care who is President. Most don't even vote.

Most only care to get their standing sheets to see how they placed last week and show up for the picnic or banquet for food and drink.

Only a select few even post to this board.

The League started out years ago without such rules and stipulations and was better for it.

Maybe, less is better?

I am completely lost in what everyone is saying. I made a comment about our bylaws. We need bylaws to keep the organization running. Some of them are very vague and could use some additional explanation. Others are fine.

This forum was meant to be used to throw out ideas. That's was my intent.

Debbie, Or should I say "for the league?" started the name calling. I am in total agreement with everyone's comment about having fun and it's only darts. That's why I have played and participated for over 23 years.

I hope that no one interpreted my comments as egotistical, or with any negative tone. If so, it was not my intent. My only negative was directed soley at Debbie who, as we all know by past posts, will try and start something out of nothing.

Just someone trying to stir up some controversy. I wasn't going to respond to any of their posts, figuring that maybe they would go away.

My intent on this post was to state LEDA is not currently registered with the State of Ohio to operate as a non-profit organization.

Thus, taxes may come back against the club for years it is not registered.

Maybe someone should look into this.

Kim, former President 8 or 9 years ago while she was President says by laws were fine.

Linda, later President blames Kelsey for changes that might have been made.

Let the current Board take care of the Leagues by laws.

They all got voted in. Let them handle what needs to be.

One way or another, the League will survive.

sorry, but I don't see Linda blaming Steve, seems like a innocent statement stating that she doesn't know of any changes to the bylaws during Steve's term. why do you seem to read something negative into everyones comments? I also agree with Kim about looking at the bylaws. They should probably be looked at every couple of years. Also, if your soooo concerned with the leaque why would you put something on a public forum that may hurt the leaque. Why not just show up to a board meeting and voice your concerns to the people that can give you the answer? These are also the same people that would fix the problem if there is an oversight.

You are right Spiderman. I do seem to have a negative approach at times.
I apologize.
Since this forum is not so public I did not think it unfair I brought up the subject of the League not being registered to be considered non-profit.

I thought my posting this would possibly help the paperwork get done so the League may not have problems with possible back taxes being owed in the future.

Maybe, it should be added to the bylaws every President has to review the bylaws to keep them current and make sure the club is registered to remain non-profit.

Not to be negative here. At one time I thought there was a committee in charge of bylaws. If it is not doing it's job maybe this should be looked into.

Kim has the right idea. The bylaws are important. But, if there is a committee in charge of this, they should be the ones to find issues. Not a former President.

No disrespect to Kim. But if a committee is in charge, they should be on top of this.

Thanks Spidie for the defense...appreciate that.

I was NOT blaming anyone...I was merely stating that I haven't been involved with the dealings of the board since my term ended so I'm not up on things as I used to be.

I will say this....the LEDA is a non-profit. It's listed as a 501C, which means we do pay employement taxes and sales tax. We do NOT pay taxes on monies collected as most corporations would in the form of income tax.

I don't know where the information is coming from about not being registered with the State of Ohio as a non-profit. We do have to file a form with the State every fives years to re-establish with the State that we are continueing to be in operation. If that form is not sent in then the State closes the corporation and informs them of said closure.

The LEDA has NEVER recieved anything from the State regarding the closure of this corporation or the loss of non-profit status, so I believe the LEDA is following the current laws of the State.

As for the Bylaws, they do need to be clarified in some areas. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that job duties of Committees needs to be clarified. As for other Bylaws, they are written to permit some flexibility for the Board of Directors to be permitted to run the corporation as it needs without having to contact the general membership everytime a check needs to be written. There are currently in place checks and balances to safe guard the corporation and its membership.

The general membership doesn't care. Many as stated just care where they placed on the standing sheet every week and this is one reason the bylaws were written as they are. Should they be looked at every couple of years? Absolutely. Is there a Committee that oversees the bylaws? Absolutely. Are they looking at the bylaws to make suggested changes to them? After every election the committee looks them over and IF there is a change suggestion it is forwarded to the board.

It is obvious to me that since there were no changes over the past few years, this Committee (who were appointed by that reigning President at that time) felt no changes were necessary. The subject has now come up on this forum and I will rest assured that the Committee is looking into the suggestions made here in an effort to clarify certain areas. I'm positive that some changes will be made, but also keep in mind that these changes will NOT happen over night. There is a process that needs to be followed and it will be as it has been done in the past.

Sorry to be so long-winded but I wanted to make sure everyone understood what procedures and issues face our Board and its Committees.

Debbie
Yet again you speak from misinformation. No taxes will be owed by the LEDA for non-profit status. The only taxes the LEDA is required to pay are paid on a quarterly basis.

As for your post about the bylaws. please get your facts straight before you post. Kim DID have the bylaws changed when she was President. She, Barb and I worked many hours together to revamp them to reflect current issues at that time. We submitted changes to the Board, which were approved by that Board and then posted for 30 days for the general membership to view and make comments. Once all comments were taking into consideration and the by;aws reposted for yet another 30 days they were voted in at the summer picnic for that year by the general membership.

AS for my comments and the current administration I think I'vve said enough there to make things clear to even you. I will add though that this administration has only been in office since June...give them some time to get things done before you start making allegations and the like to get somethigs accomplished.

Okay guys - the reason the league pays taxes is because it has a person working in the office that gets paid. Therefore the league pays payroll taxes which includes federal, state, local, etc. just like any other business. Nothing bogus goes on with the federal government - believe me.
Hope this takes away from any suspiciousness.

Diane

Maybe I have not very clear. I was trying to bring up a point that should be looked into, not on a Federal or employee tax level but, the Club running as non-profit in the state of Ohio.

Linda states,
I don't know where the information is coming from about not being registered with the State of Ohio as a non-profit. We do have to file a form with the State every fives years to re-establish with the State that we are continueing to be in operation. If that form is not sent in then the State closes the corporation and informs them of said closure.

The LEDA has NEVER recieved anything from the State regarding the closure of this corporation or the loss of non-profit status, so I believe the LEDA is following the current laws of the State.

Linda is correct a form has to be filed every five years. The club did register back in 1992 yet, failed to re-register in 1997. It's filing expired Sept of 1997, failure to file, thus making the club's non-profit status invalid with Ohio to date.

At time time I was office manager. I never received anything from the state regarding this or knew such a thing existed. I would have brought it up at a Board meeting to be given to the treasurer to look into. There was no folder in the office files pertaining to this. When Dianna gets better and back at the job ask her where any info about this in the office.

I think the problem lies with the club's office was not the one to be notified a renewal had to be made. The agent of contact was the office manager before me. It is her address the renewal was most likely sent to. This would explain why the LEDA has not received anything regarding this.

Maybe, this matters, maybe not. Maybe, the State really does not care.

I am just saying according to online records with the State of Ohio, the League is not currently registered as a non-profit organization.

The club should re-register making the agent the office, using the office address and not the office managers. A file should be made of this and kept in the office for future renewals every 5 years to avoid any complications this may make for the club.

Just my 2 cents.

For all those posting that did miss my intention in this post with worthless chatter and dumb ass views. Many knowing nothing about this issue yet, throwing shit, about something they knew nothing about.

Thank you Dianne, or whom ever, for updating the League as once again a non-profit with the state of Ohio after so many years is was not.

I don't want a pat on the back. But, if I have not posted this to this forum. I do wonder how many more years the League would have not been registered as non-profit.

Dianne I am sure you have already. But, keep a file on this for future Office Managers so they are able to keep the club updated and current.

Just my 2 cents.

Yeager, Armstrong and dboy, bashed me on this thread for whatever reason. Others, had their say.

Yet, previous Presidents so vocal about the club now, that slam me on this forum, had no idea the club was not registered within the state to be non profit. I would think a President would be more on top of this. Instead of a non-member shedding light on this subject to make it happen after so many years.

Yeager and Armstrong, during both your terms, neither one of you had a clue about this? Makes me wonder how many other flaws you did not see that could possible hurt the club. Or were two both caught up in the moment?

Bylaws?
Committees?
Nasty comments about me?

Instead of posting here, maybe you both need to get active with the club and make a real difference. Clearly, in both of you being President you somehow missed a lot.

Have a nice day. Just my view.

Not sure, what your intent is. Frankly, I don't think financial terms for the league should be discussed here.

For the League,
Maybe if you had just made a simple phone call to Dianna or a board member about the situation you wouldn't have been chastised. The forum was no place to bring up that kind of stuff. The forum should be a fun way to discuss ideas that will help the league grow not a bitch session for people with axes to grind. Like Mom always said "if you can't say something nice, shut up!"