TOBB chapter 3- Milk: feed with love

[TheOtherBabyBook]

I hope everyone had a lovely Shavuot. Last week's chapter discussion was interesting and we can keep the conversation going as long as is valuable/interesting to participants.

To kick off our third chapter discussion, about breastfeeding, we'll focus on the following questions: What was the biggest obstacle you faced in establishing a successful nursing relationship? In sustaining it?

Also, out of curiosity for those of you who are reading the book (I've purposely staged the conversation in a way that includes anyone, but I'm assuming some of you are reading along), how did you feel about the way we treated the breastfeeding/formula issues? As you may have picked up, our goal is to be as nurturing and empowering toward our readers as is possible, while still offering information and a distinct point of view. Given the difficulties that can arise with breastfeeding, as well as the volume of parents who use formula, it was a difficult balance to strike.

Thanks and looking forward to the conversation!
Miriam

[COCONUT]

The most difficult part of breastfeeding for us was the very beginning--the first week or two. I read up and spoke to many people about breastfeeding, yet was totally unprepared for how unbelievably painful it was. I remember crying hysterically during the early days as I was feeding my beautiful angel. No one mentioned the pain aspect at all. I thought I had heard it all, but apparently this is an issue that is really left out of breastfeeding literature. Her latch was perfect, so the pain was not from an improper latch. Maybe that's just how it is. Or maybe she had super sucking powers that were really making me a miserable new mama! But, thank G-d, after the difficult early days passed, it was smooth sailing for the rest of our breastfeeding days. I just wished someone would have prepared me for the obstacles I was going to face before I gave birth!

[ImaGeek]

I had a tough time at first bf'ing with both children.

With my first, I didn't even know I had inverted or flat nipples. Add to that that he also was a tongue thruster, the hospital I gave birth at kept giving him formula, and that his tongue was attached more at the bottom than many, and we had a tough time at first. B"H, I had a lactation consultant that I was able to go see and a very kind LLL leader who gave me her home number. I cried my way through thinking I was starving him and through mastitus. We started with nipple shields and then I slowly weaned him off of those, which was almost as painful for both of us as getting him to start.

With my second, I thought I knew it all and was prepared. What I didn't realize is that the challenges are different each time. With her, she was a tongue-thruster with the same issue with her tongue, so I started off with nipple shields again. She was jaundiced and that led to her getting formula from nurses whenever they had her away checking her. They'd just say, when they brought her back, "Oh, she seemed hungry, so we just gave her a bit of a bottle." I tried not to growl and bite. I had issues early on with low supply, but fenugreek helped. Again, what saved me was a great lactation consultant and just being stubborn about it.

What I wish I'd known? Some of it, luckily, I did know. I'd recommend to anyone expecting that knows they want to bf to find a LLL group before they give birth and start going to meetings. It made a huge difference for me to not only already have a support system but also a barometer for what is "normal." Also, having the information of a lactation consultant handy and reaching out to them very early on if problems crop up was essential. Some will even do a follow-up appointment after you leave the hospital, just to check on you and make sure you have a good latch. Definitely worth the time, even when you're so tired.

I wish I'd known that it's ok and normal to struggle at first and that it by no means means that it won't work out. I wish I'd known not to trust OB nurses. They often gave me misinformation like, "Oh, bf'ing just doesn't work for some people...looks like you're one of them." Stuff like that when you're newborn is crying and you're exhausted can be crushing. I wish I'd known to ask for help early and often and I'm glad I was stubborn. When nursing "clicked" after a few weeks, I was so glad I stuck it out.

[Zephyr]

I think that you did a pretty good job of striking the right balance. I've seen books that tried for "even-handedness", pretending that LLL was as powerful as the formula companies.

I would have liked to see a treatment of sexual abuse and breastfeeding; in the past when I have spoken to women who chose not to breastfeed, that came up over and over again. It's a very difficult topic under the best of circumstances, but it deserved at least a side-bar.

The only thing that bothered me about the chapter was the "In the Trenches" section, with the mother who never thought of giving up breastfeeding even though it got bad.

With my oldest son, breastfeeding took a while for me to "get", but I persevered and never thought of giving up, and at 6 weeks everything clicked, and I thought I knew breastfeeding. He nursed until a little before his 3rd birthday.

And two years later, my oldest dd was born.

I got mastitis at 3 days. And 5 days, and 7 days, and by the time she was 6 weeks old, I had spent a total of 3 of those weeks with a fever from mastitis. It was also excruciatingly painful. LC's had no idea what was wrong, expert LLL leaders were at a loss. It was one of the worst cases of oversupply that any of them had ever seen or even heard of.

I can promise you that there was one night in there, at about the two month mark, when I woke up in the middle of the night with yet another breast infection, where I, someone who helped found a LLL branch in her town, someone who believed that formula should be prescription-only, was ready to give up. I felt completely and utterly defeated. It was the middle of the night, and I had mastitis, again.

I told my dh that I couldn't go on. That in the morning, he should go and buy formula. I couldn't do it any more.

He comforted me, he even agreed with me. And he suggested that we not make any decisions until the morning. In the morning, things were a bit better, and over time I somehow found all the tricks that worked (nursing on one side, drinking bottles of sage tea every day, homeopathy, selective pumping, etc).

Eventually I got the situation under control, and by 3 or 4 months, we were down to just one case of mastitis a week. Nursing was never normal, not until I became pregnant with my third child. With that birth, everything reset, and for the first time I had a normal nursing relationship with my toddler-- while tandeming with a newborn. Both of them nursed to age four.

Somehow, that story of the mother who never thought "I cannot do this anymore" made me furious. I thought I would have found it validating-- here she is, telling a story similar to mine. But what infuriated me was that IMHO, until you *have* thought "I cannot do this anymore", you cannot understand mothers who have a little less support than you, a little less education than you, a little less drive than you. It's easy to be smug and say, "I never for a minute thought of giving up". There's a holier-than-thou lurking there.

I think that the mothers out there who are ready to give up, need to hear that you can feel that way and get through those moments, anyway. Anything less is a disservice.

[ImaGeek]

@Zephyr - I wish there was a "like" button for your post.

I remember mastitis, the fever, the lack of sleep, and the agony that the very thing that I needed to do most to get better, nurse and pump, just hurt SO much. I also remember when I had supply issues and I worried about making sure my daughter got all that she needed and I would keep pumping and pumping and nursing and nursing and hardly anything seemed to come. I'd work to get her to nurse and she'd end up frustrated, crying because so little milk came. At that time, I did supplement with formula, while I pumped.

I think it does help to hear stories of people who were human and did consider giving up and did make it through because otherwise, I would feel like, "Well, I'm just not made of the same stuff as these women...this just isn't for me."

Nursing can be hard, but like a lot of things that are really tough, it can also be so rewarding. I think showing that balance is important.

[npl]

I haven't read the chapter, but wanted to comment that I had trouble getting started with all 4 kids. 2 had medical issues that complicated things. One of those 2 I persevered through nearly 2 years of basically exclusive nursing until his condition deteriorated to the point of needing a special medical formula instead of all food and breastmilk. The second of the kids with the same gi condition had to be weaned at 8 weeks onto a similar formula and I still feel guilty that I wasn't able to persevere through the pain (acid-burns on me from his severe reflux) and the extremely limited diet (still very symptomatic with me eating just 6 foods). My first I supplemented with formula because she was a difficult nurser and I needed the emotional break sometimes.
And I am bracing myself for a challenging start again this time. Because if I had such trouble getting started with 4 kids, why will the 5th be any different?
I know to ask for help right from the start, and to persevere. And also that I'll cry in pain and frustration. But I also know that it will get easier and less painful with time, and that I can ultimately have a satisfying nursing relationship in which I can nurture my baby both physically and emotionally. But, if circumstances dictate that we can't nurse, I know that I can give the same nurturing with bottle feeding.

[TheOtherBabyBook]

Thanks for your honesty, everyone, and the beautiful and difficult journeys you shared here.

Zephyr, you bring up a great point. My co-author Megan wrote "In the trenches", and it hadn't occurred to me that her saying she never thought of giving up might be off-putting to moms who have contemplated it. I'm curious and will check in with her about it. But assuming we can take her at her word - that she never thought of giving up - we are all different, aren't we? While there is a shared sense of struggle of purpose (we all want to be the best mom we can, in a way that resonates with us), we each have our own boiling points, and one mom's reaction to "rock bottom" is guaranteed to vary from another's. Does it somehow compromise our own journey if our experiences don't match? And how could they ever match?

I know I'm getting philosophical here, but this speaks to the heart of capturing any aspect of parenting-- there will be a universal and there will be an individual. And trying to capture the universal in a sea of individuals can be a moving target.

[chavs]

Zephyr, I really liked your post, it really spoke to me and I agree on all points, I just wanted to tell you that, thank you for your honesty.

[LearningFromExperience]

If there weren't so much that was universal, we wouldn't be here discussing it ad infinitem.

It's always very reassuring to hear about other who have been there, who have shared an experience - the "normalization" of our feelings and frustrations.

It's in that context that the differences can be celebrated.

[Zephyr]

I would never criticize another mother's experience. Her story is her story, and is therefore intrinsically valid.

My objection is its inclusion in a baby book, as an "I had a hard time, and we made it work" story meant to motivate other moms. It wasn't the best possible choice when it came to choosing a "rock bottom" moment to share. It's not just that different people have a different rock bottom point, or a different reaction to rock bottom.

It's that if the narrator wasn't ready to give up, if she hadn't completely known that she could not do it any more, it might have been awful, but by definition it was not rock bottom.

Those of us who did give up, but also somehow managed to continue, and those of us who gave up and could not continue, are marginalized by "I never thought about giving up".

I'm not saying that she didn't have it rough-- I know the hell of oversupply, and I know that she had it rough. But this isn't about her-- it's about the book and the message of hope and support that you want to give to your readers.