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| ImaGeek |
Posted: May 23 2012, 03:25 PM
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K'nayna Harah Group: Members Posts: 314 Member No.: 286 Joined: 9-September 11 |
My Rabbi would like us to study in greater depth some of the topics briefly touched on by the 13 Principles of Faith. In particular, he mentioned Gan Eden, Olam Haba, Resurrection of the dead, and Moshiach.
Now...I'm the kind of person who usually leaves metaphysical navel gazing to those more inclined to it or those with the time to do it. I tend to focus more on the here and now and trying to do everything the best way I can day to day and figure that any rewards or punishments later on will take care of themselves if I do that well. So, I'm kind of out of my normal territory here. Our Rabbi suggested the first sefer of Mishneh Torah as a good place to start, which we have and have been reading. I was wondering if anyone else had some good resources to point us toward? |
| LearningFromExperience |
Posted: May 23 2012, 04:19 PM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 3,406 Member No.: 26 Joined: 23-November 06 |
Aryeh Kaplan. Hands down, everything he has written is golden.
Looking for a link to his article on the topic, I found this: http://www.morashasyllabus.com/class/The%2...%20Part%20I.pdf which looks pretty good. http://www.aish.com/authors/48865952.html |
| npl |
Posted: May 23 2012, 04:43 PM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 1,652 Member No.: 146 Joined: 3-July 08 |
I was going to suggest Aryeh Kaplan, too. I'd get both anthologies, if you can, but the individual (slim) volumes are also good.
I'm thinking that Rabbi Akiva Tatz might have some articles or books that address what you are looking at. Can't remember off-hand, but it's the kind of topic he addresses in a very intellectual way (ie not just you need to believe this, but more of the why and how). Maybe Rabbi Gottleib, too (blanking on his first name, associated with Ohr Somayach). In fact, browsing the websites of Aish and Ohr Somayach might both provide starting points on basic hashkafa. |
| npl |
Posted: May 23 2012, 07:05 PM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 1,652 Member No.: 146 Joined: 3-July 08 |
Rabbi Tatz
You can also find free audio (mp3?) at Simple To Remember You can find out more about Rabbi David Gottleib on the Ohr Somayach website and I'm guessing that you can find his shiurim on simpletoremember or other sites like that. |
| shirarocklin |
Posted: May 23 2012, 08:15 PM
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Fanatic Group: Members Posts: 838 Member No.: 95 Joined: 20-May 07 |
is 'hashkafa' being used here in a broader context than sometimes used? hijacking.
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| npl |
Posted: May 23 2012, 08:45 PM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 1,652 Member No.: 146 Joined: 3-July 08 |
I take it to mean "Jewish thought" as in, what does the Torah say about...
Not "how do we group ourselves as a community" like yeshivish, chareidi, modern, but more broad questions like what does it mean when it says (in shmoneh esrei) "mechayei hameisim", what is olam haba and how do we earn our place in it, what conditions will bring Moshiach, and what do we know about what it will be like when Moshiach comes (and who is Moshiach, anyway). Reward and Punishment. |
| LearningFromExperience |
Posted: May 24 2012, 02:01 AM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 3,406 Member No.: 26 Joined: 23-November 06 |
Also called "Machshevet Yisrael" - Jewish Thought.
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| ImaGeek |
Posted: May 24 2012, 07:01 AM
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K'nayna Harah Group: Members Posts: 314 Member No.: 286 Joined: 9-September 11 |
Thank you guys so much! I think I'm going to order Kaplan's anthology as well as go through these links and read the books my chavrusa stuffed in my bag last night.
![]() It is interesting, though, how different my Rabbi's views on these topics are than what I'd been told or taught by other Jews. I'm wondering if there is any kind of "mainstream" consensus on topics like these? For example, when it comes to Olam Haba... I'd always been told a story similar to this. Moshiach comes. He is a fully human king who gathers up the Jews from all corners of the earth. After some conflict, he leads them to Israel where they all dwell and rebuild the Beis Hamikdash. Miracles happen and the world becomes perfected, a virtual utopia. His view is much different. Moshiach comes, a human king who gathers up the Jews to Israel and rebuilds the Beis Hamikdash. After some conflict, there is peace, but other than the Jews all being in Israel and the Temple rebuilt, life is much the same. Starvation and sickness continue. Greed and suffering continue. Beyond believing in the basis of the 13 Principles, are there specifics that one must believe to be considered a Jew? |
| npl |
Posted: May 24 2012, 08:25 AM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 1,652 Member No.: 146 Joined: 3-July 08 |
First off, I think most of us don't really learn hashkafa rigorously, even if we go to Yeshiva high schools. Might be different in Israel, or since my day, but we had only basic lessons for the last 2 years of high school. We didn't learn much. My understanding from my younger siblings is that it is taught more in post-high school programs.
Secondly, davka with the topic of Moshiach and what happens right before he comes and in the time of the 3rd beis hamikdash. Truth is, we really don't know for sure. There are some things that are known, and others that are guessed at. It's even been taught that we are not supposed to delve so deeply as to know the exact specifics - that it's better to direct that energy to wishing for Moshiach and doing what we can to bring him sooner. So, I don't think that topic is necessarily a good example. But, in general, there are differences of opinion even with hashkafa, but not on the absolute fundamentals, more in their details, if I'm understanding it correctly myself (without a real education in this area, as I said before). As for being considered a Jew - my understanding is that if you are born a Jew you are always a Jew with potential for teshuva, except in very limited cases (which I can't remember the specifics of, but I think are very public declarations of not believing). Hopefully, someone with a better education can enlighten us both on that one! |
| ImaGeek |
Posted: May 24 2012, 09:26 AM
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K'nayna Harah Group: Members Posts: 314 Member No.: 286 Joined: 9-September 11 |
This is pretty much how I've understood such things...that an Orthodox Jew is judged primarily by keeping the mitzvos along with a very few very basic principles that are common, but beyond that, there is a diverse spectrum of views on matters of faith and belief. Of course, born Jew is a Jew even if they don't observe the mitzvos or even believe in the 13 principles. However, a potential convert is questioned on these kinds of things and I guess, since I've been asked to study them, I'm thinking it's something I should have some opinions about and hope that those opinions aren't too far off from mainstream Orthodoxy. To be honest, I'm not sure where we fall, hashkafa-wise. I don't think we know enough to say exactly what branch of Orthodoxy we fit best with. We have family who are Chabad, a rather diverse Shul, and our sponsoring Rabbi appears to lean more toward Yeshivish. Up until now, I've rather viewed all these different perspectives as interesting, studying bits and pieces that interest me and finding bits and pieces all over the spectrum that appeal to me. During the majority of my conversion studies, I've kept my head out of the clouds and focused more on the practicalities of living a Torah life and only looked at the most basic views of emunah. |
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| emunahbutterfly |
Posted: May 27 2012, 02:53 PM
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Fanatic Group: Members Posts: 670 Member No.: 100 Joined: 24-June 07 |
if i remember correctly your rabbi's view follows the rambam. it isn;t that the other people were wrong it is just that (knowingly or not) they follow a certain "hashkafah" on this issue, or a certain side of a machlokes. |
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| Yehudis |
Posted: May 28 2012, 11:50 PM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 1,617 Member No.: 41 Joined: 10-December 06 |
A classic work which addresses these issues is Derech Hashem/ The Way of G-d by the Ramchal. Also his Daas Tevunos/Knowing Heart.
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| LearningFromExperience |
Posted: May 29 2012, 01:34 AM
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Clearly neglecting my kids to be here this much Group: Members Posts: 3,406 Member No.: 26 Joined: 23-November 06 |
Seconding Derech Hashem here (which, btw, was translated by R' Aryeh Kaplan)
There is a huge range of acceptable beliefs. Creation of the world by G-d and Divine Revelation of the Torah, both Written and Oral, are pretty much the only truly necessary beliefs. The Rambam's 13 principles have become sort of dogmatic over time, but even there, it's far from clear cut. I think there was just a book published examining the opposition to each of them, lots of fun. For you, right now, to stay safely within bounds of what's accepted, you can trust R' Aryeh Kaplan. (I'm surprised to hear that your rabbi holds like the Rambam for Moshiach, I would have expected him to follow some of the other opinions. In any case, the Rambam describes another stage after Moshiach - Techiat HaMeitim, resurrection of the dead, and in that era, there will be no death, no disease) |
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