almost 4 y.o. behaviour, good gravy

[elisheva]

Ds1 will be 4, b'ezrat Hashem, on 20 Kislev. His behaviour lately has been, um, not so fun?

There are times when he is a complete joy. Then there are times when it seems like he is deliberately trying to piss me off. He will deliberately try to wreck things when I'm in the middle of something. It's not for lack of attention - he gets loads and even gets one-on-one time at least once a day with either myself or my DH. I'm a SAHM and I really try to balance household chores with doing things with the kids.

He also just.doesn't.listen. Today his brother poured a huge amount of fish food into the fish tank. When we discovered it, I started trying to scoop out as much as possible. He started to reach his hand into the disgusting tank and I said something like "please keep out of the tank". He didn't even pause - just kept going as though he couldn't hear me. I flipped (end of long day) and yelled "get your hand out of the tank!!!!!!!!!" DH grabbed him and took him to wash his hands.

What is this? He just totally ignored me.

I've always tried to avoid power struggles with my kids but I find myself falling into that with him. He totally ignores me so that makes me more determined to not be ignored, etc. Vicious.

We set limits where they need to be set and enforce them. We use time out when we have to but generally try to use "time in". Time out is more if I'm afraid I'm going to really lose my cool and I can't lock myself away and leave the two littles to roam the house unsupervised.

Is this normal? Will it pass? What the heck?

[sunny aus]

it sounds like where i was with my ds earlier this year. he was 4 in july and we very rarely have days like this anymore. i don't know how much of it was him growing out of it. some of the improvement is probably because i'm dealing with him differently. but hang in there. i've found 4 much easier than 3.

[Chavelamomela]

Sounds like he's normal and he's testing you, testing boundaries, and he's pressing your buttons. My ds1 can be the exact same way!

This is the age where turing things into a game, a race (beat the clock) and such really helps to engage cooperation - b/c it makes chores fun.

Hang in there!

[chavs]

It sounds like dh at that age, he did the same thing. I actually thought at some point he might have a hearing problem and had his hearing tested, his ears were fine and they told me they have a lot of boys in who have selective hearing.
The more he didnt listen the more power struggling happened because it sometimes peed me of big time as well and pushed my bottons. Dh got more annoyed then I did though. I think itas really abou picking your battles and not just to be heard so o speak. 4 is definitely better then the 3's though so hang in there. You sound like you are doing the right thing.

[LearningFromExperience]

Look, he's not so little any more. He's got his own ideas, and it's by no means obvious to anyone that your ideas take precedence. And ultimately, they won't always. You have to make it clear to him when they do and when they don't.

If it's important, roll your eyes (internally - but it helps accept the fact that little boys have their own very interesting ideas), then take him by the hand and make him do what needs to be done.

You also have to insist that he not ignore you, as in "when Mommy or Daddy say something to you, you have to respond: you can say, "but I really WANT to have my hands in the water", but you can't say nothing."

This will take a long time to sink in, but it's worth doing this now in preparation for almost 14 yo behavior.

If it's not earth-shattering, you can say, "I see that you prefer to keep your hands in the water - is this important to you?" In those situations, you can show him that you take his opinion into account when it's safe to do so, which will make it easier for all of you in the long run.

[elisheva]

Ok. Thanks for validating his behaviour and giving advice.

DH is away on business for two days and we're all a wreck. Ds1 has bitten ds2 twice and pinched him really hard once. Ds1 has also pinched the dog, the baby, and tried to bite me twice.

I have not handled it well and have yelled at him today more than once. I know he's upset about his father being gone, but the being mean to others without any visible regret is making me crazy. I showed him to bite marks on ds2 well after the fact and he just acted like nothing happened.

I just don't know what to do. Is it realistic that I have to sit and watch ds1 and ds2 like a hawk every waking minute of every day when they are together? I'll go batty and we'll never eat. What is the appropriate response and how can I help myself from wanting to swat his little backside when he hurts someone/thing? I get that it`s really not a good idea to use violence to teach that violence isn`t acceptable. Intellectually I`m fine. It`s in the moment that is problematic for me.

[LearningFromExperience]

Personally, I think that the "using violence to teach violence" argument is nonsensical.

However, if you believe that potching his backside is the not right thing to do, then you have to have other things instead.

1. You expect regret over the bite marks? As they say in Brooklyn, Forgettaboutit! Regret is something you have to teach. As in, "YOU MAY NOT BITE YOUR BROTHER. YOU HURT HIM! I AM ANGRY THAT YOU HURT YOUR BROTHER! NOW SIT HERE UNTIL THIS TIMER RINGS AND DO NOT MOVE!" (You have to stay with him to make sure he doesn't leave) After that, you should make him say "sorry" to his brother, which is also a lot harder than it sounds.

2. No, you don't have to watch them every second. So ds2 will have bite marks. Make sure they don't get infected.

3. They're clearly affected by their father's absence. You should deal with that directly, by counting days on the calendar, making pictures and songs for him, etc, etc. But you can't let them lose all sense of direction and discipline.

Good luck!

[elisheva]

He bit ds2 again first thing this morning and I put him in his room for a few minutes. I've been doing all this reading about how using "time-in" is better for the child than timeout but I just can't do it with all the kids around. We'll see how time out goes. I'm reluctant to make him say sorry unless he really is because I think it leads to pro forma apologies without a real regret on the apologizers part.

So empathy must be developmental. What age?

[LearningFromExperience]

Time-out in a different room, away from you? I don't understand what that's supposed to accomplish. You don't see what he's doing. For all you know, he's throwing stuff around in anger, what would that get you? Have him sit in a corner or behind the couch or on the stairs or next to the door - anywhere in sight where there is nothing for him to do except sit quietly, for 3 minutes.

Saying "sorry" is a skill just like saying "please" and "thank you". It has value way beyond the meaning behind it.

And anyway, do we only say "Ashamti, Bagadti" on Yom Kippur if we mean it? No, we have to say it first, and mean it (hopefully) sometime by Neila.

Empathy has many faces. It's not a switch. And hurting someone close to you doesn't mean you don't have empathy for them. If someone else were to hurt ds2, or if he were to fall down in the playground, I'm positive that ds1 would be very upset for him.

If we say nasty things to our spouses when we're upset about something unrelated, does that mean that we have no empathy for them? Isn't it simply because they're there, and they'll forgive us one way or another?

Same thing. Your son is biting his brother because he's upset and his brother is right there. That's all.

BTW - in Faber Mazlish, they make a very good point: the parent's first attention should be on the victim, not the perpetrator.

[elisheva]

Ok. I was using his room because it was a way to keep the littles away from him. If it happens again today, I'll try a chair in the corner of the dining room.

Thanks.