Dh uses potches, help please!

My Dh recently decided to give up on the whole gentle approach to discipline, or even using time-outs, because he felt it wasn't working, and instead has starting giving dc light potches, either on the tush or on the hand.

I really don't like it.

But not only do I not like it, when I see dh use this form of discipline, I find myself threatening dc with potches too - and even potching, which I am very upset at myself for doing.

Please help. I'd like to provide dh (and me) with some gentle but effective methods to respond appropriately when our child misbehaves.

That's hard. How old is the child and what kind of behavior are you trying to eliminate? Maybe we can think of better ways to do it if you're more specific.

I can recommend Faber/Mazlish, which I've done before. It's a great resource, and I have read all of the books multiple times and still go back to them.

But from your description, while it's a good first step, the most important things here are:

Move beyond your embarrassment. I understand how you are scared of feeling judged, but we've all been there on some level, and I doubt anyone here would feel anything toward you but sympathy. I suspect we could help you more if we knew who you were. If you can at least tell us the age of your child, we would know how to help you better.

Also, does your dh want to change? If he is quick-fix oriented, then I don't have a lot to offer. There aren't any band-aids that work here. If he is truly interested in growing and learning new skills, then there is a lot out there that can make a difference. If he has a shallow relationship with his parents, he may not know how to build a real relationship. Love him for every effort he makes. And love him when he falls flat on his face. We aren't just raising our kids, here. We are growing ourselves, and it's hard, hard work.

That's the thing about potches-- they are easy. A quick fix. They stop the child's immediate behavior but don't teach him much. And worse, most of the time they are evidence of the parent's immaturity or lack of understanding of child development, or both. And I say that as a parent who has lost it with my kids, and in retrospect it had more to do with my immaturity than with theirs.

If you are looking to create meaningful, long-term relationships with your kids, quick fixes, potches, and other forms of disrespect have no place. But if you are looking for techniques to change your child's behavior, you haven't gotten to the core of the problem. Do the two of you have a picture of what you want your family life to be? Have you talked it out, do you have an agreement about what you want? Begin with the end in mind. Don't focus out on the child's behaviors-- odds are, they are perfectly normal. Focus on your behaviors, because ultimately that's the only way to change the situation at large.

I understand how you have taken on this behavior, too-- but you do not have to. Be strong. Take deep breathes. And forgive yourself. You can move forward.

my child is a preschooler.

Thank you, you've given me some things to think about.

I have heard of the faber-maslish books and I should get a copy.

DH and I haven't talked about our long-term vision - we just don't want messed up kids!

DH has a pretty good relationship with his parents.

Definitely talk to your dh and create a positive goal for raising your child - 'not messed up' isn't really inspiring, you know? Also, clarify what kind of response you want to see from your child, and make sure it's age appropriate.

I think often people give up the GD approach because they don't seem to be getting the kind of compliance/results they want. Instead of looking at how they could change that and be respectful of their child, they jump to the other side - and get the seeming instant response.

And I understand that. I've shared here before my concern that many people let their kids run all over them in the name of GD. I see this ALL THE TIME. I can't stand it. There really is middle ground, of having appropriate standards and enforcing them firmly but with love. It takes practice to figure out what that middle ground is, and it takes a commitment to finding the path.

If you and your dh can talk this out, figure out your goals, and make the commitment to together search out better strategies, then I'm sure you can successfully resolve this. Once you understand what's going on inside you both, you can deal with the more superficial outside (the potching).

How about instead of calling it Gentle Discipline, we call it Peaceful Discipline?

There is value in a person knowing that if they do X, Mommy and Daddy will be very angry.

That doesn't mean that Mommy and Daddy have to actually be angry in the sense of losing control and lashing out (and the difference between saying something hurtful and potching is that the potch stops hurting).

Showing disappointment, displeasure, and even anger is important. But it should be done in a way that will teach the child, not in order to express frustration. It's not always "gentle", and tears are part of the process. However, if the parent is in control of their own emotions and have the end goal in mind, it can still be peaceful.

The Faber Mazlish books are a must.

Raising preschoolers is just about skills. It feels harder than raising toddlers, but it's not. You just have to have the right expectations, and a long-term view of the results.

And for the record - children forgive the potches and the yelling, and all the rest of it, too. But it's a much more peaceful home when everyone knows what's expected of them.

In addition to the Faber/Mazlish books (which I absolutely love), I'd also recommed:

"Raising Roses Among the Thorns" by Rabbi Noach Orlowek
"To Kindle a Soul" by Lawrence Kelemen

Both take a more religious approach. The first basically presents GD ideas to a frum audience, while the second calls many AP/GD ideas "traditional Jewish wisdom" and presents it to a general audience.

"Raising Roses" was recommended to me by a lovely mother of 12 (now 13), who was teaching a parenting course through our shul. The final "class" consisted of a last-minute invitation to her home for Shabbat dinner. The kids were genuinely nice and helpful, there wasn't tons of yelling and screaming, and this mother didn't seem particularly stressed despite having our family of 5 come at the last minute, being pregnant and dealing with her own large brood. I figured she was a good person to give advice.

I read both books at a time when I was active on a general discipline debate board, and was looking for support for GD from a more traditional source. These books assume that discipline is a good thing, and that children need rules and structure. However, they also take a very holistic view - discipline isn't about instant compliance with parental demands, but about raising great human beings, and it is a process that requires a lot in all areas, including having parents who are self-disciplined and great people.