Love & Logic

[The Foxx]

has anyone read the book? If so, I'd love to hear your impressions.

I'm about 1/3 in and so far it really makes a lot of sense. Once I'm done this, I'm going to get the Love & Logic for Special Needs to see how they change things to allow for special needs.

[Zephyr]

I did some quick googling because the name of the book reminded me of the book "Kids Are Worth It". After a quick search, I discovered two things: one, that this book is essentially a rehash of KAWI, which is an ineffective parenting method. The second is that one of the authors of Love and Logic books is Foster Cline, who is a defender of the patently abusive so-called "attachment therapy". Reading what I did about this "therapy", I would not put a goldfish in his care, much less take any parenting advice from him. (Turns out that "attachment therapy" is controversial and several children have died while undergoing this treatment, while "attachment-based therapy" is helpful and legitimate- what one word can do!).


In general, I do not trust parenting books that label parents wtih names such as "brick wall" (from KAWI) or "helicopter" (from Love and Logic). Parenting is hard work. And all of us are doing the best we can with what we have. Any book that devaluates the struggle that so many of us have to be effective parents by pasting such harmful labels on us insults us and our peers. It feeds on our insecurities and harms our relationship with ourselves and with each other.

There are some genuinely helpful books on the market. How to Talk So Kids Will Listen by Faber and Mazlish, and Hold On to Your Kids by Neufeld are the best parenting books I have ever encountered. and really help build the parent-child relationship so that discipline becomes moot. Seven Habits of Highly Effective Parents can help you implement Neufeld's ideas.

(ETA: KAWI is a rehash of Love and Logic, not the other way around. Sorry for the error).

[The Foxx]

Thanks Zeph! I have to admit though, I can see these tips working. I did read previously about Cline's "attachment parenting" which is why I checked the book out of the library and didn't buy it

I'll add those to my list of must reads. Next in line is "The Out of Sync Child".

[chavs]

Wow, killed, what did he do, what is the philosophy? Can you tell me more.

[becca]

I haven't read any of these books but I just want to warn that just because a method works - doesn't make it a good idea. We all know controlled crying 'works' - the goal is to get babies sleeping through the night and barring a few exceptions that is what happens. Still, I doubt there's many on this board who would reccomend it (again, barring a few exceptional cases).

I know that as a parent on a big learning curve, I have done things that have achieved the desired goal, yet looking back, the long term affect was not what I wanted and had to be undone...

[elisheva]

Wow. Stunned. My FIL is a big fan of Barbara Coloroso (KAWI) so I picked up her book. Admittedly, the labeling bugs me, but I *am* finding useful the part she has about sibling rivalry and how to get teach your kids to deal with their anger (I'm learning this myself ) Zeph - what did you find so objectionable other than the labeling? Her overall philosophy of teaching kids to problem solve and think really reminds me of Faber-Mazlish.

Oh well, take what's useful and leave the rest.

[chavs]

I've gotta say Faber-Mazlish doesnt really work for ds, it makes him angrier when he is upset so I dont really use the ideas given with him.
I also dont share their view of time out if done correctly. We use time out for ourselfs or for ds when we need to cool of and it works for everyone. I give myelf time out as does dh and Mendele get time outs when he needs and the choice to have one of us come with him which he generally doesnt want.

[The Foxx]

He is, I believe, the man who came up with "rebirthing" where children are wrapped in blankets and pressed on with pillows to simulate birth. Children, under the care of inexperienced therapists, have smothered the children.

One things I have learned about parenting books is... they all have good ideas and some really screwed up ideas (like locking a 3 year old in their room... not gonna happen in my house).

I know my son. I know what he'll respond to when I read it. My son is going through a control thing right now. I say night and he'll say day. He also has a processing issue which makes reacting to requests difficult. By giving him options, he needs to think and it's easier for me to recognize that he's thinking - not defying.

Last night - we were faced with our usual battle. He wants to get into bed naked and doesn't want to get his pj's on. He wants to roll around (which we allow for sensory reasons but not too long).

After Dylan has had enough time to roll around ...

Dylan - do you want to get dressed on the bed or on the table?

Bed Mommy!

~squirms away from me~

hmmmm Dylan, you said you wanted to get dressed on the bed but you're not getting dressed. Do you want to dress yourself or do you want me to help you?

You do it Mommy!

Okay Dylan but you need to be still. If you're not still, Mommy will think you want to get dressed on the table okay?

~Dylan thinks about this for a few seconds~

Okay.

Dylan proceeds to help me help him get dressed.

Wow! Much easier than trying to hold him down and dress him.

I'm still using 123 Magic. I'm still using other tips picked up here and there. I don't believe it's an all or nothing approach. I think we can benefit from a lot of these approaches.

I left the the book at Dh's office last night so I started reading "The Out of Sync Child". I almost started to cry on the train reading some of the stories. It sounds like I could have written them.

I've come to realize that Dylan had more seizures than we originally thought. I'm convinced he was having seizures in Guatemala but that because they were quick and transient, no one realized what was going on. I'll never know the reason he had seizures and I think that bothers me.