Booster Seats for Older Children, NICOLE!!! HELP!!!

I'm sitting here in tears after watching the videos you link in your signature. I'd love for my kids to be as safe as they can be but those boosters are soooo expensive. I know you can't put a price tag on safety but its a really hefty sum. I also do not have the LATCH system in my van or tethers for all the positions.

DD3 who is nearly 4 and 35 lbs is still in a 5 point harness and I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure its tethered. DD2 is 6.5 and 55 lbs and is in a high backed booster with an adult safety belt. DD1 is 9 and the same 55 lbs (but much taller) and is no longer in a booster, just uses an adult belt.

What would you advise? I am in the market for at least one new booster before we leave for Israel since all of our current boosters are reaching their 6 year expiration date.

the turbo booster is a good, reasonably priced booster.

The TurboBooster is a good booster for kids without a long torso. Make sure to get the one that has the EPS foam in the headrest and for like $15 more, the more padded one (makes a difference on tushies!). For a longer torso-ed (sp?) kid, I would look at the Britax Monarch. Also the Compass B510 is a good booster as well. If you go to www.car-seat.org the techs there will have excellent advice. Also even if you don't buy there you can see reviews and get info on seat heights at www.elitecarseats.com.

As far as 5point harness seats go, there's a great new one out by Graco called the Nautilus. It harnesses to 65 lbs., and then can be used as a high back and then a low back booster to 100 lbs.. The harness slots are REALLY high (the only higher ones on the market are in the Regent) and it's a nice, cushy seat. Lots of cubbies and cupholders too, a nice long crotch strap, and a harness that adjusts like BUTTER. My ds sits in it:



It's $150 at Walmart, Amazon.com, and Baby Depot. Babies R Us is supposed to be getting it within the next few weeks. It installs very nicely with seat belt or LATCH, and if used in harness mode (non booster) you use the tether also. It's a little heavy (steel reinforced) to use as a booster you move between cars a lot, but the head piece moves up nice and high (bit higher than the TB).

Let me do a little more research and add to this later. Definitely go check out www.car-seat.org though; the techs there are a veritable fount of knowledge.

i've been at their forum pretty constantly lately, looking for a new car seat for ds2 (3.5). just bought it yesterday. they're very helpful and knowledgeable, if a bit focused on one issue. i guess if you live in us suburbia, it makes sense that your car and car seats are a strong focus. thank god, we don't spend nearly that much time in our car.

I will buy the Graco Nautilus for DD who is nearly 4 so I can keep her in a harness as long as possible (and her car seat needs replacing anyways). It is in our price range and we'll be happy to keep her safer for longer. Her car seat is tethered so I feel good that it has a "backup" to the regular seatbelt. However, her straps are all twisted so I have to figure out how to straighten them since that isn't the safest scenario.

DD who is 6.5 sits in a high back booster. I was thinking of changing her to a low back booster when we move to Israel because I assume that we'll have a newer car with headrests (our current van has bench seats only). I'm questioning the safety factor on this decision. What do you think?

DD who is 9 has been out of a booster for a few months now. After watching your videos and doing more research I checked her height. She is 53 inches which means that she still belongs in a booster! I mentioned to her yesterday that we may move her back into a booster and she was not pleased. I explained that being safe is more important than her pride and I think she'll be OK. I still have her former high back booster which is usable up to 54 inches. I will put her in it to see where her ears are in relation to the back of the seat. Otherwise, I may buy her a new booster that is good until 57 inches (in pink!) since I have a bunch of girls that will be able to use it over the next 6 years. My main concern about this is that her legs are very long for the standard booster and they cut her in the back of her thigh. Never mind, that dh's car is really old and only has a lap belt in the position she sits in...

Be'H I will keep the newest babe rear facing as long as possible. I have to check the weight limit on our current convertable car seat for rear facing use. I have a feeling that its on the lower end...

Should I worry that my older girls are not in 5 point harnesses? They are both well under the 65 or 80 lbs limits but they are older and taller. My current van does not have a LATCH system so we'd be relying on a safety belt to secure the seat anyways. I do not know what kind of system the van we purchase in Israel will have.

Truthfully, my older kids don't spend a lot of time in the car either since they take a school bus to school. We do family outings on Sundays and sometimes we'll go out of town about once every other month. This will likely continue to be the situation once we move to Israel too.

afaik, latch doesn't exist here. and be prepared to witness the opposite extreme as far as "safety" and restraints are concerned. it's horrifying. it's very common to see a car on the highway packed with way too many kids, kids on laps, kids standing up--even right next to the driver. this freaks me out. call me crazy....

Here is a thread on high back vs. backless boosters for older kids.

And here is one on the 5 step test for determining booster readiness

Basically, you are allowing your child to be responsible for his/her own safety when they sit in a belt positioning booster. Most children under 5-6 years old are simply not ready for that responsibility -- they have to sit properly in the seat EVERY SINGLE TIME they're in it. Same goes for any adult seatbelt.

Your oldest daughter would still be safer in a high-back booster, of course, because they do provide some stability as well as side impact protection (EPS foam in the headrest).

You have a few you could consider; Britax Parkway (which is being discontinued, so if you can find it you may get it cheap!) is good for taller kids. Here is a good thread on booster picks.

Truthfully I think your older daughters are okay in the BPB's, unless they have issues we don't know about and can't be trusted to sit properly. You have to have vehicle headrests for low-back boosters.

I'll get back with you a bit more later; gotta go put the soup up.

I'm fully aware of the negligence in car safety in Israel. I've often wrestled with whether I should say something through an open window. It is Pikuach Nefesh!

Middle dd is not always responsible when it comes to her seatbelt. She is in a high back booster but doesn't always buckle it up tightly and moves around a lot. She needs a high back booster that threads the shoulder belt and holds it firmly in place. I can lock her shoulder belt but then she gets so frustrated.

I think I have a plan which I will carry out over the next couple of months to spread out the expense. I will buy youngest dd a Graco Nautilus and harness her as long as possible. (How do you manage will long skirts bunching up at the crotch?). I will keep middle dd in her current high back booster until we leave. I will buy a TurboBooster or similar high back booster for oldest dd and have her in it until we leave. Once we get to Israel and have a newer van with headrests, I will put middle dd in the newest high back booster and oldest dd in the backless booster we already have there. The new baby B'T is getting an infant seat from my sil and will inherit the convertable carseat (Graco ComfortSport) we have which I believe is rated until 30 lbs rearfacing.

Should I mention that youngest dd just vomited all over her carseat so I'm tempted to replace it TODAY just to avoid the cleanup...

If you want to have a view to keeping the baby RF as long as possible, you can grab a Scenera from Walmart for under $50 and it rearfaces to 35 lbs. Also the Safety First Uptown (usually you have to get that one online, although they will do free ship-to-store) which is a little more padded than the Scenera; it also RF to 35 lbs. Both are really decent seats at a very reasonable price point; the shells are MUCH higher than the Comfort Sport, which most babies outgrow by height way before weight. (A baby/toddler outgrows a RF seat by height when the top of the head is within an inch of the top of the *shell* of the seat -- not the padding, be sure to double check).

Both of those seats forward face also, to 40 lbs.

Is your infant carrier still current?

Oh, yes, about the long skirts. I just sort of wrap dd's skirts around her legs and then draw the crotch strap up between. No issues. She (at 4.5 years old) is much happier in a 5 point harness, believe it or not. I think she feels more "cocooned" or something -- she has gone in a high back booster in a carpool emergency once or twice (if I had to pick up a neighbor's sick kid or something) and she doesn't like it.

Not only is the strap twistiness not the "safest scenario" it is actually quite a large hazard. The straps simply cannot protect well in the event of a crash when they're twisted; part of the safety aspect is the impact-torque force on the belts, and they have to have their webbing flat and intact (also no washing, soaking, or saturating them -- if they have had that, you have to replace the harness).

My oldest dd also is infrequently in the car; however those times that she is, she's protected as far as I am able. I know what you mean, it always seems a little over the top. But we know that statistically most serious accidents happen close to home.

Thanks so much for all of your advice Nicole!

I just quickly looked up the carseats that you recommended although I strongly suspect we'll just continue with the ComfortSport. We bought it when dd was a baby and she is just turning 4 so it has a few more years left in it. By the time it expires I'll be able to upgrade the baby to the Nautilus that I'm planning on purchasing. (As I'm typing this I realize that that means that the baby will only be about 1.5 when it expires, hmmmmm, a $45 carseat is certainly more affordable here than in Israel....)

The infant seat that we are getting was purchased for my nephew who just had his upsherin so its still current. I know for a fact that it was never in any accidents.

I guess I should be replacing dd's carseat with the Nautilus sooner than later. Does vomit count as saturating the straps, ? In any case, I will try and flatten out the straps when I can touch them again, ewwwwww. She'll be riding in a different harnessed high backed booster tomorrow - if we get out of the house at all.

Safety is never over the top as far as I'm concerned. Dh and others think I'm a little fanatic. I just feel like I'm following important guidelines. I really do my hishtadlus and then leave the rest up to Hashem.

The straps is why I love ds' Britax. He's almost 4 and just about growing out of it, but in the 4 years, the straps never twisted, not once.

Is that true for that Graco booster in the picture?

I do not.

Things are different here. I live in an area where average family size is 8 kids. Most families do not have minivans for two reasons. The first is that minivans are more expensive than standard 5 seaters. So if the car is normally used to go to work, it doesn't make sense to spend more money on gas and for the vehicle itself. There's also another reason, which is if you have a minivan, you might find yourself being asked to ferry other large families around. It gets complicated, so it's easier not to create that situation and go with a smaller car.

But when there's a family wedding, or simcha, or the family goes on a trip somewhere, then they somehow pack EVERYONE in. They know. They are just relying on the fact that in the overwhelming majority of trips, everything goes fine, and b"H everyone gets to their destination safely.

Things are different in America, people take the danger of cars and carseats differently. But I'll present a different perspective on the issue: a child in a car without a carseat is actually safe the overwhelming majority of the time. Think about how many times you've been in the car in the past month, and how many times you have experienced catastrophic failure c'v, and you will see what I mean. Being in a car without a carseat is not dangerous. Being in a car that is experiencing catastrophic failure without a carseat is nasty business. Now granted, you never know when that will be-- or if that will be. So in the United States, people weigh in on one side of the equation, and here in Israel people weigh in on the other. Be aware that it's a cultural issue, and not actually in fact a safety issue.

At least, not most of the time.

I can't agree. Statistics in Israel show that more people die in car accidents than in wars and terrorist attacks. When accidents happen they are obviously often fatal. I agree that much of it is cultural but the idea of car seat/seatbelt safety is catching on. The recent change in booster seat laws reflects this (finally!).

Even in the USA, the biggest killer of children is car accidents.