I have finished the 3rd lesson on Power to Parent and am thoroughly enjoying it.

I am understanding that to encourage attachment you encourage dependence among other things. He didnt sound impressed with the current culture in North America and Britain (being Danish I can say its very un-danish) where parents encourage their kids to get themselves food. Personally I encourage my kids to get themselves snacks such as an apple or pear or what have you. I am not sure if he meant food like that or meals. The general impression was that if your child asks you to help them get dressed for example you are mor elikely to get somewhere if you help them as opposed to tell them they should do it themselves.
One practical question in relation to this is that my kids tend to come to me when they get annoyed/angry/upset or something else with one another or other children. Ds or dd will come and tell me that so and so didnt share or snatched or something else and ask me to help them. Until now I have tried to encourage them to deal with stuff like that by themselves (not big stuff but smaller things) and tried to give them pointers if needed on how to do that. The result is that he might just talk to the kid and solve it or ask the kid's mom he has a problem with to talk to her child and get him/her to listen or another grown up. Now I am wondering if the better approach would be to go with him and tell him I'll hold his hand while he talks to the kid or I'll talk to the kid.


My other question is about collecting. If your child is in the middle of talking to you does he need collecting? If you start to collect him and he starts talking (not smiling or nodding) but telling you all about his powers and his pets powers or her princesses and pets then is that collecting? Ds is not great with eye contact, I have to usually call his name and direct his eyes to mine to get it or be talking to him already to get eye contact and even then his eyes flit around. I know children can be picked up with their ears would this sound like ears would be where I go? I also noticed that ds doesnt tend to nod when spoken to he replies with words or doesnt reply but starts talking about whatever interests him. I'd say 'you're wearing your Simpsons shirt' and he'd reply Pikatshoos powers can make him fly and I can fly with him, I also have melting powers and lava powers!'. IS that collecting?

Thank you:-)
!

I say yes to the neufield approach to solving problems between kids, as you describe it. they don't just magically know social stuff because we 'tell' them how to do it. They have to see it, over and over again, before they can do it. and they have to reach the developmental level/age to be able to express it, even if they already did understand it on some level. So, going with him is a good idea.

I always dressed DD 6yo, it never occurred to me that is something which kids 'should' do independently at a certain age. She's totally dressing herself every day now, for a long time, she never asks for my help.

Wouldn't it depend on the unique personality of the child and the family dynamics?

My son, for example, likes to cook and has been helping me since he was 3. Now, at 7, his job every Friday is to make the matzo balls and Israeli salad. He loves doing it, and gets a sense of accomplishment. To me, it's part of the attachment process because I'm responding to his unique needs and personality, giving him help if needed, and it's in the context of a family dinner.

Same thing with my oldest dd and baking cookies. She likes to do it, she's good at it and it's her form of anger management and stress relief. She feels proud of it, and it's something that the whole family appreciates.

My middle daughter is naturally independent. From the time that she was 3, she insisted on dressing herself. Allowing her to do so further our attachment, because I was tuning into her unique personality. She still appreciates that I allow her to be herself, and don't baby her. She knew, for example, that I would tell the teacher that she could decide for herself if she needed to wear a coat.

In most home ed groups the kids have been encouraged to solve minor conflicts on their own so i've gone along with that as I see the general wisdom in that, it somehow seemed wiser then having kids who came over everytime their friend didnt do what they wanted or they disagreed on something. I am not sure still where this falls in.

Dd and ds both love to hoover and thats fine and they both love to feed the chickens and do various jobs around the house but its not something they have to do. TThey generally 'have' to tidy up before meals (put toys away) and I'll help them with that when it seems to be harder for whatever reason.
What I meant in beng selfsufficient was things like telling ds to get his own drink or fruit when he wants it as opposed to me bringing it to him. At his age and until I was quite old the kitchen was my mother's and she'd bring me what ever I wanted. I'd seen/read about ppl who do it our way and liked it. I like that its not 'my kitchen' and that I dont have to get every single hing he needs wants.
I got the impression this was not a very Neufeldian (I made that term up) way and am wondering if I misunderstood and if I didnt how it was otherwise done.

Chavs: yes, when your ds wants to tell you everything he's thinking, you are definitely collecting properly.

It's actually pretty wonderful.

Will he make eye contact when he starts telling you about the superpowers he has on his superpower shopping list? (Boys are so funny like that! My ds is still convinced he should be able to fly, and he's heading to 15!).

As for helping kids solve problems, your instinct to get involved is a good one. Once you think about it, expecting immature beings to work out their own problems together is expecting too much. They need help with scripting, with handholding, or just moral support. Children cannot be expected to work out their own problems until they are truly able to bear the responsibility. Until then, it's our job.

JRKMommy: Yes, but.

Here's the thing. Western society, especially Britain and the US, have a push to independence that is actively harmful to children. Children are pushed to do for themselves, feed themselves, dress themselves, whatever it is.

Attachment is about dependence. The child needs to be invited to depend on us. If we tell the child, "sorry kid, you are on your own", we do a lot of damage to the attachment as well as to the child. (This is actually the first step to creating a bully).

On the other hand, an emergent child wants areas of responsibility. They want you to take a step back to a consulting position, a little at a time, until they are ready to be responsible for their own lives. So my dd makes dinner for the family once a week. I help her-- she doesn't help me. She is responsible, and she loves it.

On Fridays, each child has one major aspect of the living to care for, however they want. They are responsible for it. And now erev shabbat, my house is clean. (Previous thread notwithstanding, my house is actually not that bad).

So the idea is that they be invited to depend, but as they emerge, we give them responsibility, areas where they are CEO. And they shine. It's actually a really amazing process.

Thank you for replying I have some further questions.

Ds talks a lot, not only to me and he'd talk to most ppl though. Today he fell down the stairs the same second two electricians came to the door to fx our socket that was broken and he didnt stop talking and telling them how he fell down, how he is saving up for a nintendo (he tells everyone this) and other stuff. He might also have told them about his 'pets' (toys with powers). My point is that he talks a lot to anyone who are around and sometimes to himself as well. Does it still count? Is he still collected?

When he talks he sometimes has eye contact sometimes not. He moves around a lot and might in that process turn his back on me, then move to the left, then the right, then face me, then have eye contact again.
Should I in that try to get eye contact with him? or should I try t get a smile and a nod out (that is really more the invitation though isnt it?). So he's collected? if he is talking? Does that mean he is collected by anyone he talks to? (head spinning at this point-sorry). One problem with him talking a lot is that i do have to sometimes stop him and its hard to do first of all for him to hear me trying, then for him to stop and then for me to be able to do it without rejecting him.

I get what you are saying about helping them with interactions, thank you. What do you think about things like food? Should I start trying to get him the fruit or drink instead of letting him get it himself?

My new question is about this morning and what went wrong if anything and measking if he seems attached to me at all, I am worried something is lacking.
Today I tried collecting him in the morning and he was in a bad mood and it didnt go well. I picked up on his bad mood when i wasnt offered a smile or nod back and he didnt start talking but started complaining. He went on to tell me he was angry with dd because she didnt want to play with him so after trying to help them both (he was out to sabotage her game at this point) dd agreed and was happy to play with him if he first played her game and then they played his. He didnt want that, he only wanted to play his game, his way and continued to try to sabotage her playing. I needed to have my breakfast as it was getting late and I need to eat before a certain time to feel well. Anyways, I invited him into where I was sitting to colour and then offered to play with him when I had eaten. He told me I was boring to play with and I never played the way he wanted me to which is true because he wants to control very detail of the game when I play with him and I dont enjoy running or climbing much so I try to compromise with having a sitting role in the game or something else where I can be a pirate or alien killer or what have you but sit and do it. Anyways apparently thats boring. At that point I told him to suit himself, I went to get my food. He bothered Eidele ( think he took one of her toys) i told him to join me at the table while I ate, he came sat down. I told him I wasnt happy with him and he told me he didnt care, he got up from the table with that look in his eyes, I told him to sit back down. We sat in silence for a while and then when he got up he was fine I think, they played and were nice to each other or he did something else (I dont remember).
My question is was that completely wrong? It didnt go how I wanted it to, how I tried to orchestra it which was more like me saying the things I did like 'you want Eidele to play the games you like and she isnt' and get a response where'd he'd tell me how he was feeling and what was bothering him instead of whatever it was. I kept trying and he got more and more annoyed. I tried collecting him but it felt like I pushed him away to the point where he said I was boring and that he didnt care if I wasnt happy with him.
Its hard to give an exact summary of it because it was a lot of conversation back and forth that led me to go and hae my breakfast and not try to help them but feed myself and feeling fed up and like I've read the books but he hasnt and isnt doing what the books predict.

What bothers me is 1)how hard it is for me to help him move past his anger 2) how he feels everyone has to do it his way for it to b right 3) how he said he didnt care what I thought of him (was that defensive detachment?- should I not have said that I wasnt happy with him? probably not thinking of it) 4) it concerns me that he thinks I am boring. In order for him to be attached to me do I have to be the person he prefers to play with? I never liked running and wont start enjoying it now, its not me, if I need to play with him exactely how he wants to in order for him to attach to me how will it happen? He prefers playing with other kids for this reason, so is that a problem? Do I have to become a kid to compete with that?

This evening he said he wants to be a solicitor like tatty (he loves his tatty- adores him and has told us both how he loves him more then me because he is cute-cute is something to do with looks btw) I asked him if it was because it sounds interesting or because he wanted to be like tatty and he said because he wanted to be like tatty and then asked wha a solicitor did (try explaining that to a 6 year old). He then said he wanted to marry Eidele. Very sweet but I am concerned that it means that she is more of a primary attachment then I am. Bizare my son wants to marry my dd and I am concerned that he doesnt want to marry me (I wonder what a shrink would say). I hope its clear why I am asking and that I dont sound completely demented.

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer everyone!

I'm having a lot of the same questions you are, chavs.

So true! The children haven't read the script and sometimes we feel out-of-sorts when they don't behave in the way the books predict they will


I can't address all the aspects you brought up, but there's one point I can address from my own family's experience:

The short answer is "no"

Everyone has limitations, and as our kids parents, we can show our children that. DH is disabled and cannot do all the things he used to, and he can't run around like other dads or play catch like he would want to.

Does that make him a bad "playmate?" No.

I sometimes feel tired after a long day, or have times when I am feeling under the weather and cannot run and jump and play and do active activities as DS1 (age 7) would prefer me to do.

Does that make me a bad playmate? No.

I can show ds the activities I can do with him (read books, play board games, listen to his story, we even play video games together (that is DS's favorite activity and I've rediscovered my childhood love for Mario Brothers... )

My point is, you don't and cannot be everything to every child. And you're not meant to be. You don't have to be actively jumping and running to play. Sure, it's more boring than if you'd run, but you're not 7 years old - and ds can learn to accept that. Perhaps he can convince Eidele to play these games with him, or perhaps an occasional playdate w. a friend his age will give him an opportunity to play these types of active games - but that doesn't mean you have to be the one running after him.

Often times, I will take my kids to the playground, and leave them to play while I sit on the bench and relax a bit. I am not a hover-parent (or helicopter parent, or whatever it's called) and never understood the kind of parent who follow their child around on the playground - I let them play freely, even my 2.5 y.o. It's just not my style to hover. And I don't think it makes me a better or worse parent.

You can have your limitations, and that's okay. You don't need to feel guilty.

Elisheva, I thought I replied earlier but I guess not. I just wanted to say I am happy to hear I am not the only one with questions. I am looking 4ward to hearing the replies as well!

Chavi, thank you! I needed to hear that! I am just not a very energetic person and I try to do other fun stuff like reading or listening or planting or pretending to be on a special mission when we are driving etc. There are days like today where I havent played with either kid really. I've spoken to them and we did some reading in the morning but I've needed to get stuff done basically. I've tried to collect him throughout the day though.
The good thing is that usually Eidele loves playing with him and they'll play superheroes killing baddies and Eidele will insert some girliness into it such as jewellery or be a superhero princess who'll feed someone while she's at it. they can play for hours (sometimes they'll fght like cat and dog but then they'll play happily again)He plays in shul on shabbos and in the home ed group as well.

Thank you!

I don't think that you need to be all things to your child.

You need to be his Mommy.

I know that I'll never have as much energy as my son, or be as cool as my daughters, or sing well, or act out some of the stuff that my kids do, etc. I don't have to do those things. I remember my firstborn laughing her head off at the daycare when she the older brother of another child was in the room. It occurred to me that I was never going to be as amusing as a hyperactive 5 yr old boy was to her.

When they need a Mommy, they come to me. They need me to listen to them, to snuggle them, to give them unconditional love even when they aren't at their best, to allow them a safe space to really let me know what bothering them, to be waiting at 2:30 a.m. when the bus from the Shabbaton is late, and above all, to give them a rock-solid feeling of security so that know that they can rely on me and feel that I am always going to ask in their best interests.

Now, to be that great Mommy, you need to be a good, confident place yourself. For starters - you need breakfast! There's absolutely nothing wrong with making sure that your needs are met, and in fact by doing so, you put yourself in a stronger position to deal with everyone else. Getting enough rest and good food will make you feel more calm.

Being calm is important, because your kids will see that while they may get overwhelmed, they can count on you to be their rock. At some point, of course, you'll need to teach your kids to speak respectfully to you know, but this will be for their benefit, not yours. They won't have to fear that they have to watch their words because they are concerned about your emotional reaction. If your son says, "you're boring", he's being honest about his POV and feeling safe enough with you to be brutally honest.

I would allow him to feel like he can speak freely with you, even if he's angry, frustrated, upset, etc. Hear him out, and let him know that you've heard him. You don't need to solve the problem or take on the responsibility of ensuring that he is never bored or frustrated. It's ok to be frustrated that his little sister isn't the most fun playmate ever, but you can also let him know that it's not ok for him to act out against her.

Jrkmummy, i am going on some last minutes before shabbos here I just wanted to say thank you.
I do need breakfast and I need to make it a priority. I try to eat before a certain time in the day (as in before lunch), i get side tracked easily but really try to do it.
I think ds feels able to tell me how he feels (as evidenced) and I think my reaction to him saying I was boring was fairly bland, it just got me thinking especially as we just started watching the dvds and I am trying to figure them out. The thing about when parents have to compete with peers and how it works, if I need to be his playmate sort of thing. My understanding from these posts is that I dont need to be his playmate or friend but that his friends shouldnt be his mother or father (have that connection/attachment/power that a parent has or should have)-did I get it?
The respect we are working on continually. I dont allow him or Eidele to be disrespectful to me or dh and on a whole they are ok although they are sometmes lacking and I need to not be afraid to be the parent. I think the dvds are helping with that. Because of my upbringing its hard for me but I know i need to persevere with it so i am, we both (ds and myself) could probably improve. Its not being ignored though.
I gotta go very urgently now.
Good Shabbo:-)

That's a very concise way of putting it. Yes, that's the point. There is no requirement for you to be your children's playmate, and therefore no reason to feel guilty, at all.

Thank you Lfe.

JfkMummy, I was thinking about your posts and about the incident I described with ds and it occured to me that I am not sure what was disrespectful. I am not sure if I am that oblivious or is I gave it over wrong (both are possible). I am however quite aware as I said its an issue we (dh and me) have to work on and I am so it is being dealt with as well as we can. After watching the Neufeld dvds I realised that a lot of the power we have is contrived power as in me saying things like 'you need to tidy up before I serve lunch' because its the easiest way for me to get them to tidy up (this is when asking them to tidy doesnt work by itself) or 'if you are not listening to me (in the park for example) we'll have to go home because its not safe for me to walk with kids who I cant trust to listen'.
I also realised that one of the problems is that I have shown a lot of the time that I have no idea what to do with them. I have in fact said to dh that I give up and he can deal with them. Its not good and I think that had someone pointed it out I would have realised but noone did obviously (didnt happen that often) but similar or less extreme situuations where I am unsure of how to proceed happened. Now I have to clean up the mess. I realise now that the slogan 'act as if' is quite appropriate here. They cant know I am at a loss and I am the answer to whatever the problem is.

Anyways, I am not sure if this was off topic but on my original question I wanted to add that I was having a look in the How To Talk So... and one of the chapters is called encouraging autonomy and that is basically my question, which is it? encouraging autonomy or encouraging dependance? Depending on the author its a different answer but is there a way of making them mesh? Am I confused by thinking they dont go together?

So my question with the playmate versus mummy thing is after I thought abut it some more is that being as I homeschool and I and dd are who is around most and he doesnt play with other kids that much he really enjoys it when he does. I guess I am worried he is attaching to them more because they are fulfilling that need in him better then I am and he is so excited to play with other kids his age that he attaches to them, is that possible? Do I make sense? I am having trouble explaining what I need. He looks forward to Thursday when we go the home ed group and gets tp play with Edward and to shabbos when he plays with Akiva and when i ask him at the end of the day what he is grateful for he says that he played with Edward. OTher times he has said things to the effect of that being his favourite things and the best day of the week because of playing with them (Edward particularly).