3 weeks ago we went to Zusha's cheider for an interview. I was pretty positive that he'd cling to me for dear life the entire time and refuse to say a word. Baruch Hashem I was wrong. He did beautifully! The principal took him to his side of the desk and showed him a picture book Zusha had to name the pictures and answer the Rebbi's questions. He knew most things. Except that he called the cow in the picture "Moorka," the name of his stuffed cow.
He also pointed to all the Alef Bais letters in the book, naming them. The principal wasn't thrilled, especially at the "Shlos Mem," which is one of the harder letters to learn. He likes it when the school introduces the letters for the first time so the children shouldn't be bored. Besides for the fact that kids this age will not be bored with repetition of things they love, if my child wants to learn and keeps asking me to tell me what the letters are called, I will not brush him off. I believe in letting natural curiosity lead the way. And if the child is turned down at his request to learn for the dozenth time, how eager will he be to learn it once the time comes, in school? No, we will be indulging our children's love of learning at their own pace.

>>I believe in letting natural curiosity lead the way.<<

Enjoy his natural curiousity while it lasts because once he's in school, the clock will start ticking fast towards burnout. The stats are against maintaining a healthy love for learning once they're in the school environment. As a homeschooler, I used to be very wary about making statements like these because I'm not anti-school, just pro homeschooling. But I speak to schooling moms ALL THE TIME about issues like this and this is what THEY are saying. I have many, many examples but I'll just say that it truly seems to me that the large percentage of the parental population has serious concerns about the way our schools are educating kids and serious regrets once their kids are older that they did what everyone else did when they were younger.

Today a mom of seven told me that she regrets the entire yeshiva day school education, that it's been a disaster for her almost all of her kids (oldest in sem, youngest is 4). This is a wonderful mother and a frum, committed woman, not some flake. On Tuesday evening, I spoke to a mother of ten (very strong family) who told me that she no longer believes that family really matters the way she used to. She said that school has left lifetime scars on her kids (and these were bright and motivated kids) and that the best strong families can hope for is damage control. We should be alarmed when strong and dedicated parents with a lot of experience behind them are saying things like this (the second is a teacher in the BY system) and feel stuck and hopeless about the system as it is.

Please, speak to older more experienced parents and ask them to honestly share their concerns with you about the school you want to send your son to. Many people don't want to be negative and think it's just their family that it's not working for, that everyone else is happy. Once you have more input, you can make a balanced choice and take into account how to counter the negative influences.

If you can, please, please wait a little longer before you put him in cheder. As you see, you can do a great job with him at home and they aren't going to be overjoyed to have a bright and inquisitive little boy there.

Remember this - a child will always do better when you make the choice of 'better late than early'. (Look for a book by that title by Raymond Moore, filled with studies and explanations about why that is so in every area of development)

Thank G-d, my children's education has not been the unmitigated disaster described above, nor is it exclusively damage control. I believe they actually do learn things, do enjoy their learning, and do have positive role models and relationships with their teachers.

However, I do agree with Happy Mom about the timing - 3 years old is very, very young. They should be playing with cars and trucks and dolls, making stuff out of play dough, and counting raisins. Why put him in such a structured environment at this age? Is it necessary socially, that your family be part of the cheder? Or do you think he'll really learn things there that you cannot provide otherwise?

I think that at this age it shouldn't be an issue. But once you're in grade school it really can be. Remember how much time teachers spend repeating the same lesson?

(I was the kid who "got it" on the first run, and was "bored" during the repetition process and didn't understand why it took others longer to absorb. )


I recently had this very discussion with some friends of older kids (older than mine, that is- grade school). They were discussing a 3rd grade child whose father was "going ahead" and teaching things ant home to his son. This was creating a bad situation in class, since the boy was brilliant but bored. The teacher suggested that if the father wants to teach his son something, he should teach him things he won't learn in school (i.e. Japanese language, or a sefer they won't learn in school).

I definitely see how this can be a problem, especially if it's an ongoing issue.

Remember, LFE, that you are in a school system in a different country that operates differently. The school day is shorter (for girls and young kids, anyway), and parents aren't stressing over tuitions and carpools. Those facts alone change the dynamics.

Also, the mom of ten I referred to has the perspective of having a number of kids out of high school (youngest is 6th or 7th grade) - ten years ago she told me she would have said something very similar to what you are saying now.

I realize what I posted sounded extreme, and if it was just my opinion, I wouldn't have posted because I would sound too off the wall. But this is what I hear very, very often, from solid and thinking parents. No one has to listen to my 'alarmist' or exaggerated post - I really suggest that every parent of a school age child start talking to other parents, especially those with long range experience with multiple children in school. Read the articles written by those inside the school system who are warning about the harm we cause to children by our restrictive school environment. Knowing the facts helps a parent to deal with them effectively.

True. I don't know the system. I only remember my own experience, which is 20 years old. But what, there are NO good teachers left? I can't believe that, I'm sorry. Some of mine are still around.

I do speak to parents of kids here. There are problems here, too, especially the ridiculous system of "Bagrut", which everybody hates but nobody can change. There's a bit of good there, too, because my son will get to study physics on a fairly high level, and in my hs we didn't even take the regents in physics.

I think the attitude of the home is still key. If achievement in school (however it's defined) is the only measure of a child's worth and success, then there will be problems, no matter how wonderful the teachers, the curriculum, the principal, or anything else.

The system Karapooz is entering is different from any I have experienced, either. I'm sure there's good and there's bad in that, too. In truth, I don't know enough about it to criticize it, not even as much as I already have.

But a teacher who's unhappy because a child knows too much raises so many red flags for me, it could be a May Day parade.

<<<But a teacher who's unhappy because a child knows too much raises so many red flags for me, it could be a May Day parade.>>>
It seems like it's a minhag for many not to start the Alef Bais until age 3, if it sheds any positive light on the school.
I spoke to DH about this issue and he said all the schools we would consider have this outlook, too.
I also spoke to a mother of 2 boys in that school who was surprised to hear it. She said most kids learn it in playgroup, and her son also knew it and no one said anything.

It depends on how he said it. Was he actually unhappy, or just surprised? Was he thinking about how he'll have to work harder to keep him interested or concerned about your son enjoying his learning?

What else do the other parents say? I've sometimes heard very good things about these rebbes, how they shower the children with love, and have lots of fun learning and so on.

It was the principal, so the individual Rebbeim have their own outlook on these things.
He was surprised and commented how Zusha was "too smart" for them, sort of in a joking way. Then he said that a child who knows all the material will be bored and have no "cheishek" for learning it.
Although I totally disagree. Kids this age thrive on things they love.

When my oldest ds was three, he was in cheder in EY, and I wanted to keep him back another year in the 3yo gan, since his birthday was on the border and he was one of the youngest in the class. I registered him in Feb so they administration wouldn't tell me that there was no room or anything like that, and apparently no one high up realized until the first day of school (which wasn't my intent, I thought they must have seen the registration and not had a problem with it).

I got a call from a very upset mefakeach on the first day of school, insisting that ds would become a discipline problem because he had already learned the three year old material and therefore would be bored and act out. We had quite a discussion about it before he very reluctantly agreed to let ds stay in that class for a month before moving him back up a grade.

Anyway, he wasn't bored, he didn't act out, and being a year older meant that he learned things in a different way than the first time around. (Honestly, I really wonder how much of the weekly parsha a three year old remembers from year to year, so I wasn't personally worried he would be bored.)

Now it's accepted practice in EY to have kids stay a second year in Gan Chova (5 yo kindergarten), if they are not fully ripe for academics. I've had all my winter-born kids do a second year, nobody ever suggested that they might be bored "repeating" the material.

Kal V'Chomer 3 yo.

We're talking about the little folks that demand the same books read over and over.

[slight tangent]i got an (apologetic) email today from the woman organizing ds1's keitana (day camp) this summer. she warned that he might remember some of the material (it's a camp based on english books and activities surrounding the book themes and authors) from 2 years ago. aside from the fact that he's two years older now and he may or may not remember, all i could help thinking is how much he'll enjoy doing some of the same things again....[/tangent]