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Title: Garth Snow
Description: GO F YOURSELF!!!


stevedepot - December 7, 2010 05:24 PM (GMT)
You hear that Katie Strang?
You hear that wannabe journalists who write fluff?

THAT is the reality. NOT because someone from ESPN wrote it.
NOT because Scott Burnside and Pierre LeBrun might not know everything there is to know about hockey.
Because we all have seen this from day one and we're sick and tired of the circus.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=5892256

QUOTE
New York Islanders
Grade: F
Trending: Down
Summary: GM Garth Snow fired coach Scott Gordon, but in retrospect, he might have been doing Gordon a favor given how bad this team is. Injuries to Mark Streit and Kyle Okposo haven't helped matters, but this is a poorly constructed team from the goal on out. Rick DiPietro has struggled to deliver quality starts coming back from multiple knee operations, the defense is porous and there isn't enough skill up front. Good thing Snow found time to ban writer Chris Botta from covering the team.

Jackace - December 7, 2010 05:52 PM (GMT)
I agree. With the farm system no where near the top 10 in talent after 5 years of high picks, DP getting starts instead of rehab, gordon, Janikowski, Botta. What else can this toolio f-up? I guess we will all find out.

Webb20 - December 7, 2010 06:05 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
but this is a poorly constructed team from the goal on out.


That says it all.

I guess there is just no limit to bad press that Wang will take. He's not going to do damn thing. First, because he'd have to get rid of the only hockey people he has, and second he'd have to invest to make a difference.


Snowman39 - December 7, 2010 06:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Webb20 @ Dec 7 2010, 01:05 PM)
QUOTE
but this is a poorly constructed team from the goal on out.


That says it all.

I guess there is just no limit to bad press that Wang will take. He's not going to do damn thing. First, because he'd have to get rid of the only hockey people he has, and second he'd have to invest to make a difference.

Nothing is going to change. The only reason Milbury left as GM was because he told Charles it was time for a change. The only reason he left the organization was because he chose to. Wang is a clown. The Wilpons have been bashed from pillar to post by Mets fans for years and years for being "too hands on". They had a major reality check, and did a major overhaul with both their front office and their organizational philosophy. Now, only time will tell how successful that is. But at least they're aware of public perception and they're TRYING. Wang is the total opposite. For whatever reason, he thinks that his way is the right way, and it continues to yield not only bad results, but HORRENDOUS results. And two of the smarter hockey people they had in Jankowski and Trots, they're both kicked to the curb. Sometimes I think the only way out of this nightmare is to have the team move.

Bexlyspeed - December 7, 2010 06:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Snowman39 @ Dec 7 2010, 01:26 PM)
Sometimes I think the only way out of this nightmare is to have the team move.

I think that will be the end result. the team has been so bad for so long that this latest stretch of awfulness will plunge them to the point where the only interested buyer will be someone who wants to move them. and at this point how can bettman argue (i really dont think he cares anyway)

it really makes me sad because i can not see myself atching Hockey if there are no Islanders. I gave watched them bad for so many years but in the last few seasons its been so bad from top to bottom that i hardley enjoy it at all.

Shooter - December 7, 2010 06:57 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Jackace @ Dec 7 2010, 12:52 PM)
I agree. With the farm system no where near the top 10 in talent after 5 years of high picks, DP getting starts instead of rehab, gordon, Janikowski, Botta. What else can this toolio f-up? I guess we will all find out.

On DP: While I agree he should have gotten starts down in Bridgeport, he sat until Roli showed signs of wear and tear, then played well for a few starts until the Rags game.

stevedepot - December 7, 2010 08:55 PM (GMT)
what a load of BS this is.

The joke of a franchise and GM cannot get worse than this...

http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=...%20in%20English

QUOTE
SNOW LIVE ON ISLANDERS TV
Islanders GM Garth Snow will answer your questions LIVE on Islanders TV
Tuesday, 12.07.2010 / 12:52 PM / News
New York Islanders
Share
Have you ever wanted to know what it was like to be the General Manager of a National Hockey League team? How about what goes into making trades or selecting draft picks? Here is your chance to ask Islanders General Manager Garth Snow what it's like. Tune in to IslandersTV on NewYorkIslanders.com at 10:30 a.m. on Friday, December 10 to hear his answers.

Submit your questions to Snow via Twitter by @'ing NYIslanders with what you want to know. You can also submit by commenting in the related post on the Islanders Facebook Fan Page wall. Not on Facebook or Twitter? Email your questions to nyisocialmedia@gmail.com.



Snow looks forward to hearing from you.


why can't he go somewhere where it's NOT a CONTROLLED environment???
TWITTER??? so they can HAND pick the FLUFF???
ridiculous.

:angrier: :thumbsdown:

rst033 - December 7, 2010 08:59 PM (GMT)
looks like what the NHL wants is for all of us to become Ranger fans

MMingE - December 7, 2010 09:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (stevedepot @ Dec 7 2010, 03:55 PM)
Have you ever wanted to know what it was like to be the General Manager of a National Hockey League team?

How would he know what that's like ? :dontknow:

Webb20 - December 7, 2010 09:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (MMingE @ Dec 7 2010, 04:14 PM)
QUOTE (stevedepot @ Dec 7 2010, 03:55 PM)
Have you ever wanted to know what it was like to be the General Manager of a National Hockey League team?

How would he know what that's like ? :dontknow:

Beat me to it....

QUOTE
Have you ever wanted to know what it was like to be the General Manager of a National Hockey League team? How about what goes into making trades or selecting draft picks?

I was going to say questions he asks himself every day. :yes:

4CUPZ - December 7, 2010 09:44 PM (GMT)
Mr.Snow
Any chance you want to revise your prediction that "YOUR TEAM" will be in the hunt for a playoff entry this season?

How do you feel when you look at the standings and the dwindling attendance?

When will this organization finally realize it needs to field a professional team
not this hodgepodge of under achievers and AHL stars in waiting?

PennyPinching is what us fans need to do to pay for the over inflated ticket prices your boss seems to feel this teams viewing worth is
but its not how to run a so-called professional sports franchise
(dont dare to bring in the building excuse,cause truth be told if you were ever able to give a team worth rooting for the fans would be 100 deep at Eisenhower Parks' outdoor rink paying top dollar to cheer the team on)

Now you can delete this email
and answer the pressing questions like
"What flavor cupcake is for favorite?"

A FAN OF THE DYNASTY ISLANDERS
not this fiasco

Tom "4CUPZ" DeLuca




This was my waste of an Email





stevedepot - December 8, 2010 02:54 PM (GMT)
great letter Tom.
I sent something that was pretty harsh.
Unreal how he's still employed.


Charles Wang has left our team like a kid riding a bike with training wheels trying to compete with
professionals racing the Tour de France.

rst033 - December 8, 2010 03:17 PM (GMT)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

stevedepot - December 8, 2010 03:21 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 8 2010, 10:17 AM)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

Snow could get Heatley, Iginla and draft picks and he'd still be an epic failure.
Even with a healthy Streit and Okposo all year this team would suck. Okposo has never scored over 20 goals a season. At best we'd be in 12th place in the conference instead of dead last overall.

Garth Snow is to blame almost as much as Wang. He has ZERO integrity left.
The bastid declared a REBUILD and it was all a ruse for biding time until Wang got his real estate.
It was never all about player development, HOCKEY, HOCKEY and otherwise HOCKEY, it was about profit.

See the quote in my sig from Lexhair.

;)

Jackace - December 8, 2010 03:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 8 2010, 10:17 AM)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

5 years of high draft picks and still in the bottom half in talent in the minors. If he restocked the system to at least top 10 in NHL talent I would be a bit more patient, but enough is enough.

Lexhair - December 8, 2010 05:35 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (stevedepot @ Dec 8 2010, 10:21 AM)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 8 2010, 10:17 AM)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

Snow could get Heatley, Iginla and draft picks and he'd still be an epic failure.
Even with a healthy Streit and Okposo all year this team would suck. Okposo has never scored over 20 goals a season. At best we'd be in 12th place in the conference instead of dead last overall.

Garth Snow is to blame almost as much as Wang. He has ZERO integrity left.
The bastid declared a REBUILD and it was all a ruse for biding time until Wang got his real estate.
It was never all about player development, HOCKEY, HOCKEY and otherwise HOCKEY, it was about profit.

See the quote in my sig from Lexhair.

;)

I miss a lot with sigs turned off.

Love you, Steve.

Lexhair - December 8, 2010 05:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 8 2010, 10:17 AM)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

user posted image

4CUPZ - December 8, 2010 08:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 8 2010, 11:17 AM)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

QUOTE
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen

BFD THEY'D STILL SUCK

I DONT KNOW WHAT THE FIXATION WITH KO IS
HE HASNT SHOWN SQUAT YET
ONLY REASON HE'S NOTICED HERE
IS BECAUSE OF THE COMPOST PILE HE'S LUMPED IN WITH

OlTimeHockey - December 8, 2010 08:15 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (4CUPZ @ Dec 8 2010, 03:07 PM)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 8 2010, 11:17 AM)
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen and you are rebuilding they're going to be terrible.

lets see what Snow does for the rest of the year. the Isles have a few players that are UFA's that other would want let's see if Snow can steal some blue chips

QUOTE
not here to defend Snow or how this team has performed but when you lose your top forward and your top defensemen

BFD THEY'D STILL SUCK

I DONT KNOW WHAT THE FIXATION WITH KO IS
HE HASNT SHOWN SQUAT YET
ONLY REASON HE'S NOTICED HERE
IS BECAUSE OF THE COMPOST PILE HE'S LUMPED IN WITH

He's an underdeveloped kid who has talent but has lacked the veteran guidance to make him a tougher kid who will go to the net and flourish in this league.

He's another "learn from the other kids" guy. The only guys learning from playing with vets are on the third and fourth line.....which is why Nielson and lesser guys are more NHL ready talent and ability wise than our main cogs?

islesfever - December 8, 2010 09:00 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 7 2010, 03:59 PM)
looks like what the NHL wants is for all of us to become Ranger fans

NO WAY NEVER :disgraced:

3POTI - December 9, 2010 01:57 AM (GMT)
snow can't answer your questions now, he's got a hangover.

bumpkin - December 9, 2010 07:58 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 7 2010, 03:59 PM)
looks like what the NHL wants is for all of us to become Ranger fans

I am old enough to have been there and done that. Cablevision came to CT before the dynasty years, and the Isles were everything the Rangers are not nor will ever be.
Which has nothing to do with now.

25yearfan - December 9, 2010 03:48 PM (GMT)
I heard Garth proposed an innovative new three part rule for the draft process -- to keep us fans involved. Also heard the voting is down to the wire on this - here's a summary:



At the completion of the last game of the season, if the last place team trails the second to last place team in the standings by 30 or more points, then:

[a] the last place team shall automatically receive the first pick in the draft; the remaining four worst teams will continue in a four-way lottery for picks two through five.

[b] the NHL commissioner shall write down a number between 1 and 100 on a piece of paper, place the paper in an envelope and seal it; the GM of the last place team will be given one chance to guess the number at a podium, with the NHL commissioner; if the guess is correct, the team will qualify for a one-game wild card game against the #8 team in its conference, the winner to advance into the playoffs.

[c] should the GM of the last place team successfully guess the number in [b] above, the team's captain may turn down the wild card qualification by standing on the podium and simultaneously punching the team's GM in the face* while shouting "Uncle!"; should the team captain be suffering from an upper body injury that makes this process impossible, the team will vote on an active roster member to take the place of the team captain at the podium.

rst033 - December 11, 2010 01:06 PM (GMT)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing. so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving. anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11


stevedepot - December 11, 2010 01:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 08:06 AM)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing. so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving. anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11

So if you owned an NHL team you'd hire Garth Snow?

Gotcha.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

aries44475 - December 11, 2010 04:00 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 08:06 AM)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing. so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving. anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11

There is no doubt that building through the draft is part of making this team better but you aslo have to acquire "other" players to fill in spots. No "re-build" is done with 100% home grown talent....I'd venture to say its usually 40% home and 60% FA's...some might come in when they are young so the seem homegrown.

How many people think of Paul ONeil as a Yankee instead of a Red? He basically played the same amount of years for each team.

The rebuilds that worked in the last 10 years...Cap, Pen's and Chi have had draft picks surrounded by Vets....

rst033 - December 11, 2010 10:04 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (stevedepot @ Dec 11 2010, 08:09 AM)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 08:06 AM)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing.  so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving.  anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of  those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11

So if you owned an NHL team you'd hire Garth Snow?

Gotcha.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

yea you did :cheers:

4CUPZ - December 11, 2010 10:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 06:04 PM)
QUOTE (stevedepot @ Dec 11 2010, 08:09 AM)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 08:06 AM)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing.  so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving.  anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of  those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11

So if you owned an NHL team you'd hire Garth Snow?

Gotcha.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

yea you did :cheers:

AND YOUR TEAM WOULD BE JUST AS GOOD AS THIS MESS???

IF WHAT GARFF SAYS IS TRUE AND HE HAS RESTRICTIONS ON PAYROLL
AND THIS IS HIS VISION ADD ANOTHER TO HIS LIST OF TITLES
"SHMUCK"

rst033 - December 11, 2010 10:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (aries44475 @ Dec 11 2010, 11:00 AM)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 08:06 AM)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing.  so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving.  anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of  those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11

There is no doubt that building through the draft is part of making this team better but you aslo have to acquire "other" players to fill in spots. No "re-build" is done with 100% home grown talent....I'd venture to say its usually 40% home and 60% FA's...some might come in when they are young so the seem homegrown.

How many people think of Paul ONeil as a Yankee instead of a Red? He basically played the same amount of years for each team.

The rebuilds that worked in the last 10 years...Cap, Pen's and Chi have had draft picks surrounded by Vets....

speak of the Yankees what did Gene Michael used to say??? if you need a thirdbasemen you go out and get a 3b.

the Islanders need a very aggressive GM. the Islanders need to make deals-but if you speak to Snow or Snow claims that when he speaks to teams all they want is the islanders top prospects. if this is true (and it could be) the Islanders are in real bad shape-the rest of the league is telling you they're is nobody good enough on your team to trade for-I think if that message got out to the team you'd see a different Islander team play tonight.

the Islanders have very few trading chips then Garth should blow the whole team up asap deal for picks and castoffs and keep on combing the waiver wire for talent

but i agree waiting for the draft is an impossible way to build a team

Islander4cups - December 11, 2010 11:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 05:14 PM)
QUOTE (aries44475 @ Dec 11 2010, 11:00 AM)
QUOTE (rst033 @ Dec 11 2010, 08:06 AM)
what did Garth Snow keep on repeating on 12/10 on ask the gm on islanders.com-they will continue to build through the draft and this is Garth Snow's rebuilding job-he spoke about the scouting dept he's put together and he has final say on all player personnel matters (including the draft)

when you take a step and look at what Mike Milbury left behind he pretty much left the franchise with nothing.  so you have to start somewhere and even though the Islanders are are awful right now their prospect base is improving.  anyway its takes about 5 year for a draft to yield nhl talent and already we're starting to see some of  those player crack the line up.

imo I agree with what Garth Snow is doing. he's building a team from within he trying to find the core of a team the same way Torrey put together a core in the mid 70's.

btw this kid Hamonic is showing allot of promise would love to see him pair up with De Haan in '11

There is no doubt that building through the draft is part of making this team better but you aslo have to acquire "other" players to fill in spots. No "re-build" is done with 100% home grown talent....I'd venture to say its usually 40% home and 60% FA's...some might come in when they are young so the seem homegrown.

How many people think of Paul ONeil as a Yankee instead of a Red? He basically played the same amount of years for each team.

The rebuilds that worked in the last 10 years...Cap, Pen's and Chi have had draft picks surrounded by Vets....

speak of the Yankees what did Gene Michael used to say??? if you need a thirdbasemen you go out and get a 3b.

the Islanders need a very aggressive GM. the Islanders need to make deals-but if you speak to Snow or Snow claims that when he speaks to teams all they want is the islanders top prospects. if this is true (and it could be) the Islanders are in real bad shape-the rest of the league is telling you they're is nobody good enough on your team to trade for-I think if that message got out to the team you'd see a different Islander team play tonight.

the Islanders have very few trading chips then Garth should blow the whole team up asap deal for picks and castoffs and keep on combing the waiver wire for talent

but i agree waiting for the draft is an impossible way to build a team

Tell that to Pittsburgh, Chicago, Washington and Detroit.

I don't have a problem with the way Garth has drafted or the deals he's made on draft day. He took over a farm system with absolutely no crops planted. He's begun to restock the talent pool and it takes time to develop that talent.

This is where I'm critical of Garth. I think those he has in charge of developing that talent are not doing the proper job. Specifically, Gordon & Cappy and now removing our head of scouting??? Sorry, but what kids have we seen make serious strides? Forget KO, Tavares and Bailey...have we seen kids like Franz, Jonsseu, Martin, and others make serious strides in the time they've been in this organization?

I think Garth made a terrible move in hiring Gordon and committing the entire org to his version of "overspeed" and in doing so, I didn't see Gordon develop any young talent, which is what he was brought in here to do.

In that sense, I'd give Garth an F because Gordon not only didn't work, but we are sticking with his system and having someone else (Cappy) now try to run another version of it? Time to scrap that experiment and bring in an nhl calibre coach with an nhl "system" who can develop young players and hold them accountable.

Islander4cups - December 11, 2010 11:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (aries44475 @ Dec 11 2010, 11:00 AM)
No "re-build" is done with 100% home grown talent....I'd venture to say its usually 40% home and 60% FA's...some might come in when they are young so the seem homegrown.

How many people think of Paul ONeil as a Yankee instead of a Red? He basically played the same amount of years for each team.

The rebuilds that worked in the last 10 years...Cap, Pen's and Chi have had draft picks surrounded by Vets....

Hate to disagree, but I'm still waiting to see those vets on both Pitt and Washington that have paid dividends. Other than Gonchar for Pitt, who are those vets you are talking about again? Who are they on Washington? They still don't have vet leadership other than those they drafted.

I can see if you want to throw in Hossa on Detroit, but who are all the other FAs that led Chicago to their Cup again? Please don't tell me Huet.

I think you have those numbers reversed. And making a comparison with the Yankees or any baseball team is unfair because, as we see, baseball is uncapped and the Yankees, Redsox and Mets and a few others can spend the GNP of Haiti and there is nothing wrong with it. While baseball, with a more laxed FA system has greater turnover, hockey doesn't. Look at the Cup winners the last decade...Detroit, Chicago, Pitt, Tampa, Carolina, and others...how many besides Carolina & perhaps Tampa can we claim were LED by FAs more than their homegrown talent?

I'd argue that a good 60-80% of your roster needs to be homegrown and then you fill in holes where needed with the FA. Do it the opposite way, and imho you end up like the 1980's Yankees.

OlTimeHockey - December 12, 2010 07:12 AM (GMT)
I believe anyone who knows this league and takes a serious look knows....you don't win Cups with Westfall at his age, but you develop character and leadership and game style with him on the ice with your young guys. You have an assemblance of guys who work hard and take nothing for granted and will steal, kick and claw the rink to steal ice time from the kids.

1984: #16 is on the third line. He wants better? He better work harder.

2010: #16 would be on the ice as a first liner the day the season started.


Now I'll respectfully disagree about the importance of Recchi, Gonchar, Palffy et al on Pittsburg's team when Cindy broke his cherry. Those vets were there to help ALL the rookies go into the league without being crushed.

Washington got the requisite vets to ease their youth in. Chicago did the same (though they replaced many who did not fit).

We......got.......Sim.

Vets don't have to be dynamic first liners but they sure as hell better make it difficult to take a night off.

The Isles, in this regard, would be best served not playing anymore. They have no clue. Prospects get ruined, careers flushed and we sure are being cautious about that. Or not. You decide.

I'll take a few more Eddie Westfalls and JP Parise's and their ilk toughening up and raising the bar if we don't want to bother with a real coach this decade.

rst033 - December 12, 2010 02:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Islander4cups @ Dec 11 2010, 06:10 PM)
QUOTE (aries44475 @ Dec 11 2010, 11:00 AM)
No "re-build" is done with 100% home grown talent....I'd venture to say its usually 40% home and 60% FA's...some might come in when they are young so the seem homegrown.

How many people think of Paul ONeil as a Yankee instead of a Red? He basically played the same amount of years for each team.

The rebuilds that worked in the last 10 years...Cap, Pen's and Chi have had draft picks surrounded by Vets....

Hate to disagree, but I'm still waiting to see those vets on both Pitt and Washington that have paid dividends. Other than Gonchar for Pitt, who are those vets you are talking about again? Who are they on Washington? They still don't have vet leadership other than those they drafted.

I can see if you want to throw in Hossa on Detroit, but who are all the other FAs that led Chicago to their Cup again? Please don't tell me Huet.

I think you have those numbers reversed. And making a comparison with the Yankees or any baseball team is unfair because, as we see, baseball is uncapped and the Yankees, Redsox and Mets and a few others can spend the GNP of Haiti and there is nothing wrong with it. While baseball, with a more laxed FA system has greater turnover, hockey doesn't. Look at the Cup winners the last decade...Detroit, Chicago, Pitt, Tampa, Carolina, and others...how many besides Carolina & perhaps Tampa can we claim were LED by FAs more than their homegrown talent?

I'd argue that a good 60-80% of your roster needs to be homegrown and then you fill in holes where needed with the FA. Do it the opposite way, and imho you end up like the 1980's Yankees.

and at the end of the day or draft day it doesn't matter if you have the top pick overall or the 30th making a quality pick is the most important thing you can do. at the same time "sifting the sand" to find players to fill in the gap is another huge job for the GM. for the past few years Snow had done a pretty OK job finding inbetweeners like Tim Jackman Moulson Schremp Grabner but one thing Snow has not been able to do is TRADE. how do you quickly rebuild in the NHL? you build a defensive grinding team that does allot of hitting scores a few goals and gives up less-Snow has done the opposite build a small team that can't do anything include make it's own breaks. i give Snow points for trying to rebuild the system a big fat F for not building a respectable NHL team that draws zero fan interest. this team does not have the personnel to close out a game-and that's Garth's fault.

stevedepot - December 12, 2010 04:08 PM (GMT)
what have we been saying since end of last season and especially June/July?

Even if clueless Barf Blow pulls off a trade, he's still getting an F grade.
Too much damage has occurred and we're not even half way done...


http://www.ottawasun.com/sports/columnists...1/16516961.html

QUOTE

Sports Columnists / Bruce Garrioch
Isles looking for help for Tavares?

By BRUCE GARRIOCH, QMI Agency

Last Updated: December 11, 2010 11:02pm

Garth Snow appears ready to do some pre-Christmas shopping before next Sunday’s holiday roster freeze.

Sources say the New York Islanders GM is concerned he’s going to hurt the development of 20-year-old centre John Tavares. The low-spending club is actually looking to add a veteran winger as quickly as possible.

The Isles — who only reached the floor of the salary cap this season thanks to the $4.75-million (all terms US) hit from Alexei Yashin’s 2007 buyout — are the last team you’d expect to be a buyer.

But it’s pretty clear Tavares needs help.

Going into Saturday’s visit by the Atlanta Thrashers, Tavares — the No. 1 pick in the 2009 draft — had eight goals (one in his previous eight games) and six assists in 23 games and was a whopping minus-17. The talk is he won’t walk when he becomes an unrestricted free agent, he’ll run.

“(Snow) has to be careful they don’t ruin Tavares with this kind of atmosphere,” said an NHL executive. “They are teaching him how to fail and he’s been put in a bad atmosphere. They’ve got to get some veteran help to take some of the heat off him.”

There aren’t many veteran forwards on the trade market, and the Islanders would like to bring in a top-six player. As reported recently, Tampa’s Simon Gagne is one of the few options available.


AROUND THE BOARDS

All those GMs looking for blue-line help — including San Jose’s Doug Wilson — are just waiting for our good friend Mike Gillis to make Kevin Bieksa available as trade bait. Despite what Gillis might tweet or tell the media, he’s likely going to deal Bieksa before the Feb. 28 deadline. The Canucks will want something in return for the looming UFA, who’s a valuable commodity ... This one just won’t go away: The Caps are second in the Eastern Conference, but there are still whispers about the future of coach Bruce Boudreau. A situation we’re going to have to keep an eye on ... If a GM’s job opens up, TSN analyst Pierre McGuire is going to be a candidate. Hockey Canada president Bob Nicholson and Tampa assistant GM Julien Brisebois, who left the Montreal Canadiens last summer to join Steve Yzerman with the Bolts, are also being mentioned.

OFF THE GLASS

What’s making the rounds in Halifax: There are rumours that if Mooseheads owner Bobby Smith, who recently went behind the QMJHL club’s bench to coach, decides to sell, he might not have to look far for a buyer. The talk is Penguins superstar Sidney Crosby, a native of nearby Cole Harbour, might be interested in buying the franchise. His father, Troy, would be an ideal candidate to run the team. Attendance is down in Halifax and Smith is being heckled ... The Florida Panthers are likely going to build through the draft, which means G Tomas Vokoun will be gone before the trade deadline. GM Dale Tallon would be looking for a first-round pick for Vokoun. While there aren’t many teams looking for goalies, don’t be surprised if the Bolts start sniffing around.

THE MORNING SKATE

Penguins GM Ray Shero has a decision to make on RW Pascal Dupuis. A looming UFA, Dupuis is having a solid season with seven goals and seven assists in 29 games. Either Shero is going to have lock up Dupuis, who is making $1.4 million, or deal him at the deadline. Many teams would covet the veteran for a playoff run ... With the salary cap expected to increase to $62.1 million next season — up about $3 million — teams are already plotting their spending plans for next season. Nobody is sure what the future holds for salaries after the CBA expires in the summer of 2012. The bottom line: We could see a lot of one-year deals for UFAs next summer.

RUMOURS DU JOUR

The Rangers are trying to move LW Alex Frolov to just about anybody. They don’t want much in return for Frolov, who was signed as a UFA in the off-season to a $3-million deal. GM Glen Sather is having a hard time finding any takers and Frolov didn’t help matters by complaining to a Russian journalist about his ice time last week. It’s believed the Senators looked at Frolov, but they don’t need any more soft forwards ... The Kings weren’t the only team looking at Boston LW Marco Sturm, who was dealt to Los Angeles for future considerations on Saturday. The Thrashers, who want to bulk up after a strong start, were also in the mix ... Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke put his self-imposed trade freeze into place last Thursday, 10 days before the actual deadline kicks in. That’s raised a few eyebrows around the NHL because the Leafs are badly in need of change. “Nobody has been more active than Burke working the phones,” said one league executive. At some point, the only solution will be firing coach Ron Wilson ... The Devils could be poised to make a move. Keep an eye on RW Jamie Langenbrunner. The Habs and Leafs are both interested.

Have a nice Sunday.

bruce.garrioch@sunmedia.ca

king glorious - December 12, 2010 04:56 PM (GMT)
I think it is comical that people attack snow as if this is his fault. Find a gm who is allowed to spend far less the sal minimum to players he would have to overpay to come here and still successful.

Evreybody has all the answers. Build from defense, no build from offense, no we need a fighrter, nwo we need a scorerr. Have fun puting together a successful team in anythign other then your fantasy's with what snow is given to work with.

oh and you dont want him to say that we are competing for a playoff spot before the season start? what would you like him to say?

And yes I would consdier hiring him to gm a team when he is given a financial budget to actually compete.


Jackace - December 12, 2010 05:07 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (king glorious @ Dec 12 2010, 11:56 AM)
I think it is comical that people attack snow as if this is his fault. Find a gm who is allowed to spend far less the sal minimum to players he would have to overpay to come here and still successful.

Evreybody has all the answers. Build from defense, no build from offense, no we need a fighrter, nwo we need a scorerr. Have fun puting together a successful team in anythign other then your fantasy's with what snow is given to work with.

oh and you dont want him to say that we are competing for a playoff spot before the season start? what would you like him to say?

And yes I would consdier hiring him to gm a team when he is given a financial budget to actually compete.

I agree with you to a point. Everyone on message boards knows better than the professionals. But look at how mediocre the farm system is after the last 5 years of drafting so high. And only now does Snow realize he should make a trade for a top 6 forward? If he pulls off some trade (and will probably be a lop-sided, anyway) does that mean he did have the approval to make one all along and didn't? WTF is that? He's just now realizing his team is in trouble? I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but no more. If we had top 10 talent in the minors I would be more patient. But after 5 years of this rebuild this is what snow has to show for it?

Snowman39 - December 12, 2010 05:13 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (king glorious @ Dec 12 2010, 11:56 AM)
I think it is comical that people attack snow as if this is his fault.  Find a gm who is allowed to spend far less the sal minimum to players he would have to overpay to come here and still successful.

Evreybody has all the answers.  Build from defense, no build from offense, no we need a fighrter, nwo we need a scorerr.  Have fun puting together a successful team in anythign other then your fantasy's with what snow is given to work with. 

oh and you dont want him to say that we are competing for a playoff spot before the season start?  what would you like him to say? 

And yes I would consdier hiring him to gm a team when he is given a financial budget to actually compete.

I don't think anybody is blaming Snow by himself. But I think in order to blame Wang for hiring Snow, you need to point out that this guy is in over his head. To get things fixed, you cannot act like everything is all roses.

Looking what Steve posted from Bruce Garrioch, it really makes you wonder what the hell is going on there. Any hockey fan on this planet knew that Tavares needed a veteran winger to help him develop. He had all summer to get that player. In fact, when Tavares was playing in the World Championships in April he was playing on a line with Ray Whitney. Ray Whitney was a UFA and I thought he'd be PERFECT. So who did he sign with? The Phoenix Coyotes, who are pretty much the only worse destination than Long Island is right now. So he took his 20 points in 26 games (16 assists) there, and we get P.A. Parenteau. So now Snow is burning up the phone lines in December trying to pry a veteran player off someone else's roster when 99% of the league is still in the playoff hunt? Good luck with that.

I'm not worried (yet) about Tavares walking as a UFA, because that won't happen for 6 years. The team may not even be here by then. There is plenty of time to turn it around. But it needs to start at the top.

stevedepot - December 12, 2010 05:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (king glorious @ Dec 12 2010, 11:56 AM)
I think it is comical that people attack snow as if this is his fault. Find a gm who is allowed to spend far less the sal minimum to players he would have to overpay to come here and still successful.

Evreybody has all the answers. Build from defense, no build from offense, no we need a fighrter, nwo we need a scorerr. Have fun puting together a successful team in anythign other then your fantasy's with what snow is given to work with.

oh and you dont want him to say that we are competing for a playoff spot before the season start? what would you like him to say?

And yes I would consdier hiring him to gm a team when he is given a financial budget to actually compete.

That's precisely why I'm here. To provide comic relief for you by making idiotic posts
based n absolutely nothing. As we all know it's NOT Garth Snow's fault. His hands are tied.
If he had no restrictions he'd be GM of the year because he's drafted well since finishing at the bottom each time and those players are developing right on schedule.

oops..wait a minute. No they're not.

See, I even made myself laugh with that rubbish above.

What I want him to say is, "due to circumstances that have developed, I can no longer fulfill
my duties as NY islanders GM and therefore have to resign."

This way the MFer leaves with some dignity. Wang needs to sell so we don't have 4 more years of bullcrap. Instead we get Garth lies and more excuses. The other day he doesn't have the balls to do on the fly interviews with media so he has hand picked and edited down questions that he gave rehearsed, reserved answers to. Each answer was almost a direct contradiction of what's happened and been said thus far. It's beyond comical because it's our franchise. Garth Snow is NOT an innocent passenger in this Wang sham.
You can have your opinion. I know hockey very very well and I actually do have the answers. That's sad when a bunch of fans on a message board consistently call the issues before they're addressed by those being paid to do a job.


:thumbsdown:

Islander4cups - December 12, 2010 05:33 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (OlTimeHockey @ Dec 12 2010, 02:12 AM)
I believe anyone who knows this league and takes a serious look knows....you don't win Cups with Westfall at his age, but you develop character and leadership and game style with him on the ice with your young guys. You have an assemblance of guys who work hard and take nothing for granted and will steal, kick and claw the rink to steal ice time from the kids.

1984: #16 is on the third line. He wants better? He better work harder.

2010: #16 would be on the ice as a first liner the day the season started.


Now I'll respectfully disagree about the importance of Recchi, Gonchar, Palffy et al on Pittsburg's team when Cindy broke his cherry. Those vets were there to help ALL the rookies go into the league without being crushed.

Washington got the requisite vets to ease their youth in. Chicago did the same (though they replaced many who did not fit).

We......got.......Sim.

Vets don't have to be dynamic first liners but they sure as hell better make it difficult to take a night off.

The Isles, in this regard, would be best served not playing anymore. They have no clue. Prospects get ruined, careers flushed and we sure are being cautious about that. Or not. You decide.

I'll take a few more Eddie Westfalls and JP Parise's and their ilk toughening up and raising the bar if we don't want to bother with a real coach this decade.

OTH...I'm not saying we don't need vets right now. By the contrary, I completely agree. However, the "vets" that Chicago and Washington added were AFTER the rookie seasons of Kane, Toews and OV. In fact, I'd argue that the Caps are STILL looking to add vets because they haven't added any of value. If you want to argue Poti, ok, but he's hardly been an impact player here. In fact, he's clearly on the decline. As for Knuble, I'd argue he and Poti were the only vets who show any level of production and leadership, but neither of them were on the Caps in OV's 3rd year. Federov was there for 3 months and gone back to Russia.

While you can argue Recchi in Pitt, I'm sorry---Ziggy Palffy? Come on. What leadership has he EVER shown? He was done by the time he got to Pitt and he's never won anywhere he's been. He was a flea who could finish, but that was long gone by the time he was in Pitt. In fact, he was only there for half of Sid's first season, so lets not overestimate his "leadership impact". Gonchar was a 1 dimensional player up until 3 seasons ago as shown by his -13 and -5 his first two seasons in Pitt. The biggest thing that helped Sid was coming into the league with Malkin and living at Mario's house. Mario was his vet. On the flip, Tavares gets to live with Doug Weight?

You are right when you say young kids need vets like a Westfall, Jude Drouin, Parise, and others to sheppard the kids. No doubt. My point was the recent rebuilds of the Pens, Caps and BHawks did not have those guys in YEAR 1 of the rebuild. However, they were added and some of those pieces came as quickly as year 2 and 3. But going the FA route was not the MAIN WAY any of those teams rebuilt themselves.

Yes, the Isles MUST add key vet FA's to help sheppard the likes of Bailey, Tavares, Moulson, Hamonic, MacDonald, and KO. Right now, those are the only 5 players who have come up in our system that I think are worth a damn. I'm hoping Matt Martin will be added to that list, but I hate how the Isles are using him right now. I think they will ruin him like they are ruining some of the names I listed.

But the idea of FAs are the main way to rebuild, I don't agree with that. You add them as needed. Right now, we have a big need. We need to add a top 6 forward and a top 2 dman...who can command the group they play with and say "this is how you ffffing do it."

Now for whatever reason, GArth hasn't gotten us those guys. Wizz isn't one on D. He's a complimentary Dman at best. Whatever the reason and we've heard plenty...Garth is a bad gm, the arena, franchise rep/ownership, people don't want to play here...whatever the reason, legit or not, ---no more excuses. It is a failure of our franchise and it must be addressed. While I do believe the arena and the franchise rep/stability play a role in that, I'm tired of excuses. Garth has done a nice job with the draft, but not with the FAs and if it takes overpaying by a mill a season to land a guy, do it. It isn't like its going to hurt us with the cap ceiling anytime soon.

Webb20 - December 12, 2010 05:38 PM (GMT)
If Garth was a good GM he'd convince the owner what's right for the club, justify spending the money and then doing what needs to be done, of which zero of them have been accomplished.

Epic Fail for a GM, period.

If he had integrity he'd resign due to ownership not allowing him to do his job, but all you hear is "no we have the green light to spend" yet never any spending. Don't give me it's the arena, as the Penguins started their successful rebuild in the Melon arena before talks about a new arena ever really got serious.

20 years of bad ownership, bad GMs, bad coaches, bad draft choices aren't weren't because of the building.




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