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 Just some updates from my addition build
Malakai
Posted: Feb 14 2012, 01:29 PM


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In this thread, I talked a little more about my addition build, especially about the roofing:

http://z11.invisionfree.com/GoodDealGames/...p?showtopic=899

Since I did something like 14" on-center spacing for the floor joists, I still have to put more floor joists that meet at 48" on-center, actually 5 more. I used 14" on-center to add to the sturdiness of the whole system, because I'm not the most confident carpenter and I did 2x10x16 boards - When using 2x10s, the max size you can go for floor joists is actually 16'2". Most people probably would have done 2x12x16s.

Since 2x10s can only extend out 16'2", we also had to build two completely different frames and then connect them together. One frame is 16', while the other is 8', to get a 24' x 16' building. It would have been not only harder to work with (heavier) but also more expensive to do 2x12s with a larger frame. Getting any lumber over 16' in my local area is about impossible, including the local lumber mills. Lowes and Home Depot are generally cheaper than local hardware stores anyway, and by the time you add mileage and the price hike of an out of town place that sells 20-24' boards, it'd probably be double the price.

As stated in the previous thread, I am going with a solar white, reflective metal roof. Instead of just putting up purlins after the trusses are up, I am going with 1/2" plywood, felt paper, and then purlins before the metal roof is up. Adding the purlins after the plywood would probably be optional, but it should add ventilation to the whole roof. The plywood, also optional in certain states/counties, will add insulation to the roof, lowering heating and cooling costs. The solar white reflective roof will also lower cooling costs but since it isn't going to absorb sunlight as well, may make heating costs a little higher. Since it's in Florida, that shouldn't be much of a problem! I've (hopefully) got all of the roofing materials and just need to finish installing the strong-tie stud plates, the five 2x10s, and do a little reinforcing on the entranceway before installation.

I was originally going to go with fiber cement siding, but since I'm over-budget, I am strongly considering doing composite siding, which cost about 2/3rds the price. 1/3rd savings is a lot, especially when you consider all of the accessories needed to install and the stuff that just 'comes up.'

After the siding is up, the flooring will go in. I'll probably do 3/4" plywood flooring. Next, I'll have to build a free-standing entranceway/hallway that will connect the addition to my place.

Then, I'll be doing the electrical and home theater wiring. My plans are to actually put a 100 amp electric panel in the addition, probably a small/cheap one with only 8-10 ports. This will power the TV, lamps, lighting, and A/C.

I've considered tying in my central AC to the addition but am not confident in my AC ducting skills, and more importantly, not sure the current central AC will actually cool my place and the addition at the same time. This is pretty disappointing, because window A/C units make too much noise (and are eyesores) when you're into home theater sound! I'd most likely have to get a larger central AC unit and also pay an AC repairman to tie in to the ductwork, a lot more costs!.

As for heat (my central ac doesn't have heat) I have been looking for a wood heater. It'll give the room a little bit of that rustic look, and the smaller heaters also act as stoves. The smaller ones are rated to heat around 900 square feet, cost around $250, but the downsides are: #1: no blower #2: install kit (not included) cost another $300+...

Awhile back, I ended up buying two brand new special order thermal insulated windows from someone bought them and never used them, both still having a price of $349 apiece listed on them, $60 for both. At least one of them will be installed in the addition. That was a pretty good savings!

As for the home theater sound system, I'm really hoping I can keep the receivers and players where they are and just use a receiver that converts all signals to HDMI and run a single HDMI cable from that room to the addition. The remote extenders I have should help out a lot here. Speaker wires will also have to be run through the walls, and I'm hoping to run a wireless adapter for the subwoofer. It'll be one of those things I'll have to test out, see if (and how well) it works, and make the decision before putting up the wall boards. My HDMI ports went out on the current home theater receiver, when a lightning surge took out some stuff. So, a new receiver will be another $300-$350. I would have gotten this one fixed, but it doesn't have 3D passthru.

In the home-theater aspect of this new build, I'll have more width and length for speaker setup, as well as the proper placement of speakers. Speakers can now be placed where they are suppose to, because there isn't a lack of a back wall and there isn't a hallway in the way of speaker placement like at my place.

Because of the larger width, I can also safely and freely add a projector and larger screen. I'll still keep my DLP tv for regular tv viewing, but there will be a pull down or electric screen that will go down in front of the TV when needed.

For wall boards, I'm really not sure if I'm going to sheetrock (gypsum board) it or use paneling. Since I've used treated boards for the studs, because of the estimated 3-year build time, it may be a better idea to use something a little more flexible than sheetrock, because as it dries, it may crack sheetrock. I may even have to plane and/or grind some of the bowing down when putting up the wall boards. It's not ideal, but if I had the money to do it all at once, I would have chose regular untreated stud boards.

Using treated boards is more expensive, not only because of the initial costs of the boards themselves but also because you need special nails and accessories that won't corrode from the chemicals leaching through from the boards over time. For example, my strong-tie stud plates cost $1.77 apiece, vs .53 cents or so for ones that work on untreated. You can't even use metal roofing on treated boards.

I was originally considering putting in skylights, for natural light in the daylight hours but have all but given up on that idea in favor of recessed led lighting on dimmers. LED as a primary light source is fairly new, and its new claim to fame is lower energy costs (1w? per led, not per light, since most lights have multiple leds in them) and produces almost no heat. Some of them are rated to last 1-2 years or more.

One thing I haven't figured out yet was whether to use carpeting or laminate flooring. That may be a little bit down the road!


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Malakai
Posted: Feb 16 2012, 11:18 AM


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When the whole idea of creating a room came up, not necessarily a living room/home theater room, I was contemplating building a two-story rec room: one story for a home theater, one story for pool table, air hockey, pinball, arcades, and jukebox. I said, "how hard could it be?" I would still love to have a two-story rec room, but I'm glad I didn't take on/tackle that project. I wouldn't have gone $2000-$3000 over budget but probably $6000-$8000 over budget on a project such as that. I would have also had to use cross-bracing between the wall studs, because of the extra weight at the top. It's not just because of pure weight but rather because of any weight shifting, with even the slightest bit of being unlevel, which could cause the first story to collapse. Cross bracing with various angles would prevent that from happening.

With that being said, this has certainly been a learning experience for me, and if I ever tackle something so large (by myself) again, I'll have a better estimate of exactly what I'd need to get the job done and a better estimate of a project budget.

In my next big project (if there ever is one lol) I can definitely cut a few corners. I'll probably build my own makeshift truss system. It cost $150 alone for the delivery of these trusses, and building my own, I can probably shave off at least $10 per truss. That's $200-$300 savings instantly. I'll also use 7' untreated studs for the walls, instead of 8' treated as I did in this project. It'll probably save me .50 cents per board.

Some of the nightmares of using 8' studs is that the added height makes it a lot harder to stabilize. It has kind of a prybar effect. The higher you go, the less force it takes to make the walls cave in or out, or possibly come crumbling down, even on its own weight. Most builders don't even take the wall supports down until at least the trusses are installed, which helps strengthen up the walls.

Since I'm in a low (wet) area, I had to raise this addition up appx 32" off of the ground, to match the height of my place. If I ever do a free-standing building, whether it's a pole barn, tool shed, or rec room, I'll probably go a max size of 16", or two blocks.


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Malakai
Posted: Feb 17 2012, 06:55 PM


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As for the electrical side of things, I'm going to be running an outdoor sub-panel from the main box and then an indoor (sub-sub?) sub-panel from it. The first sub-panel will be 100 amp, and it will give me more spaces for more stuff, like a swimming pool pump, tool shed, etc. The addition's sub-panel will only be run for 60 amps, which should be enough for a possible window ac, lighting, and tv. Remember, my 1000w+ stereo/surround system has its own breaker in the house.

Luckily, I had gotten some 8/4 copper electrical wire for free several years back, and even more lucky, it was cut at the perfect size. If it were just a couple feet shorter, I'd have to go out and spend $170-$180 on a new cable.

I love to hear when I can save money, especially since I didn't previously realize I needed to put both a wall sheathing and vapor barrier down before doing fiber cement or composite siding. So, I saved $180 and now have to spend an extra $500 on plywood sheathing and a vapor barrier. OSB was considered, at less than half the costs of plywood, but I did a lot of homework on the matter and came to the conclusion that because it wouldn't be put up, sealed, and finished in a matter of a couple of days, the chances of it expanding too much from the moisture before completion were too great.

I've seen siding installed with and without the wall sheathing here, and it's not clear if there are any major problems without it. Most siding manufacturers do say sheathing is necessary though, because siding is not air or water proof. It is pretty easy to believe that air can escape without it though. If nothing else, plywood has both insulating and structural factors.



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Malakai
Posted: Feb 21 2012, 04:18 PM


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Yesterday, I made a trip to the local hardware store to price electrical panels, and let me tell you how much of a bad idea that was! I was looking for a 12-space 100-125A outdoor breaker box, and their 100a INDOOR breaker boxes were $130. When I told the guy how much they were at Lowes, he said, "they ain't no way lowes has an outdoor breaker box for less than half of our indoor boxes." I was argumentative but also kept a cool head.

I then asked him how much his type QP 100A breakers were. $49.99!!!! At lowes, they're $35-$42 or so, depending on type, but I found a brand new one on ebay for $29.10 shipped!

Later that (yesterday) night, I went to both home depot and lowes. Home depot only has 100a outdoor panels with 8 spaces, for $39. Lowes had the 12-space box but only in the contractor's pack, with five (unneeded) breakers for $91.xx... I could have special ordered the 12-space version without the breakers for $46.50, but I didn't want to wait. I then bought 1 each of a 20a and 60a 2-pole breakers for $7.48 each! All in all, I spent $118 and some change (after tax) and have a breaker box full of breakers already. The only thing that's missing is the ground bar kit, which is like $4.65 at home depot, which I'll be getting Thursday.

It would have been nice if I could have gotten a 125a breaker for the type QP box, but the added cost ($55-$60+, or over double) for it wasn't worth it to me. The 100a QP breaker will be going from my current electrical panel to the new panel. The extra breakers I got with the contractor's pack will, over time, help me add new stuff to the system.


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Malakai
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 02:07 AM


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Well, after drinking (too much) coffee, I've found myself up later than expected but thought of a new idea for my addition, a slight redesign. I'll have to do some more calculating tomorrow when it's daylight, but I'm strongly considering moving the entrance-way further back into where it's practically unusable space anyway, closer to where the tv and projector screen will be. This would allow for me to put my seating area further back (the other back lol) away from the tv and projector screen, allowing me to project a larger screen size than what I could if I were seated closer to the screen.

Structurally, there isn't really a drawback, maybe an hours worth of extra work on the wall frame. However, I would have to find an alternative way to route the speaker wires and hdmi connection from the main receiver. I could probably just go straight down under the house, into some conduit, before coming back up inside of the wall of the new entrance way location.

This redesign may not only allow me to have a larger projector screen but could potentially give me more useable space in the addition, swapping useable space for otherwise unusable space, if that makes any sense. The theory looks good on the idea sheet, but we have to do some real-world calculating tomorrow!


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Malakai
Posted: Feb 22 2012, 05:01 PM


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After some more thought, measuring, etc, I've decided against moving the entranceway completely and am just going to make the entranceway a little more slim, gaining probably 1.5' to 2'. One of the issues is that the entrance would go into a completely different room in my house, and the small task of just putting in (or changing) a movie, game, or music cd would be a pain, because the media center is still going to be in its same place, and instead of just going through one one, I'd have to go through one, down a hallway, and then to the media center.

My idea was still a good one, if only because of the use of a larger projector screen size. However, with the smaller TV, having the seating area so far back would have its own drawbacks, like the tv looking smaller from the distance.

-

I've been looking for ways to add an HDMI 1.4 connection run through wires in the wall and have found something called HDMI Extenders which use either 1 o 2 cat 5e/6 cables and an extender/booster connected to each end of the cables. The two cable version which allows a cable run of about 120 feet can be had for around $220, while the one cable version is closer to $280-$300. They go upwards of $700+ for extenders that can go a distance of 300' or more!


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Malakai
Posted: Feb 29 2012, 05:16 PM


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I've just in the last day or two figured out where I was going to frame in my two thermal casement windows. Yesterday, I started framing in the first window and finished up this morning. Today, I started framing the second window and will hopefully finish it tomorrow. I thought for sure the second one would be done today, but my energy was drained, and my feet were hurting like crazy, constantly going up and down the ladder and moving around on 2x10s (where the sub-floor will be) tip-toeing around.

I decided to install one of the windows on the long side, looking out into the yard, with the other window right beside the outside door entrance, to see who's knocking on my door and all of that good stuff.

Anyway, this project defeated me today, but I'll be back working on it tomorrow!


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Malakai
Posted: Mar 2 2012, 04:53 PM


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This morning, I finished all of the framing stuff for the windows and door. I still have to 'tighten' it all up, but the hard work is done.

As of now, I'm playing the waiting game. We've got some people that are suppose to come install the roof, but supposedly one of the guys' back went out and he needs a week or two to recuperate. Hopefully, we'll know something more this weekend.


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Malakai
Posted: Mar 7 2012, 09:05 AM


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All of my breakers came in the other day. So, I bought a couple feet of flex conduit and installed it a couple days ago. Although I've installed many electrical things in houses, sheds, buildings, even in a circuit breaker panel, I've never actually installed a circuit panel before. I was surprised that the neutral and ground were connected together. It almost seems to make no sense why a 110v line would have power, neutral, and ground connections, when all neutrals are grounded.

When wiring 220v/240v connections, some are 3-wire (pole-1 hot, pole-2 hot, ground) and some are four (pole-1 hot, pole-2 hot, neutral, ground.) - You may have to deal with this if you're installing a new dryer, as some have 4-wire connections, some 3, and most can be configured for either wiring.

From what I've been reading, when installing a sub-panel far away from the main box, you actually create a new ground (with a ground rod) and don't tie the neutral to it.

I actually bought a new ground bar kit for my sub-panel, not knowing that I really didn't need it, because the box was so close to the main panel and therefore didn't need a new ground.



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Malakai
Posted: Mar 13 2012, 08:12 PM


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The roof trusses were installed today, and hopefully the roof will be completed by Thursday.


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Malakai
Posted: Mar 15 2012, 07:25 PM


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The roofing has been installed. The only thing left is the vented soffits. It'll be a month or two before I can get any more materials for this!


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Malakai
Posted: Mar 22 2012, 06:20 AM


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Like a lot of things, a few plans have changed again for the build. For the siding, I was going to try to do a composite wood or fiber cement siding, like hardie board, but it really seemed like the most expensive option, at $59-$66 per 4x8 sheet, or about $10.66 per linear foot. The cheapest T1-11 siding is around $3 per linear foot, while painted galvalume is around $2.10 per linear foot and can be cut to exact lengths.

T1-11 plywood siding is said to hold up to a half gallon of paint per 4x8 sheet, which makes it a pretty expensive option.

I suppose nothing is set in stone until it's here and completed, but I'll probably be going with galvalume. What are the issues with galvalume? It's corrugated and not flat. So, installing porch lights, windows, and doorways is going to be a bit different to seal from the weather. Also, it comes in limited colors, usually 10-15 pole-barn/tool-shed-type colors.


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Malakai
Posted: Jun 16 2012, 11:58 AM


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As you probably seen from the addition build pics, I did go with fiber cement vertical (as opposed to lap) siding. I had to do a lot of calculating to figure how much money it would cost of lap siding vs vertical. Lap siding would make it look more like a wood-sided house, but it's a more-involved install, and with every layer of siding, you loose X amount of inches. Even if the material per SF or LF were more per $$$, it is still quite a bit cheaper to go with vertical siding.

So far, I'm around $9,700 in the build. What's left to do:

Soffits and soffit venting
Attic baffles for soffit vents
1x floor joist that ended up buckling, twisting, turning and had to be taken out (needs replaced)
Sub-Flooring
Flooring
Walls, wall insulation
Ceiling, attic insulation
Cut out/install Gable vents
Sheathing and siding gables
Build closet
Install electrical (wall plugs, panel)
Lighting
Ductwork tie-in
Install hallway between my home and the addition.

Once the flooring is getting to be installed, I'll have to re-adjust some of the blocks
and make sure the floor joists are all level, to allow the floor to be installed level.

-

In one section, by the closet and entryway, the floor floor joists are tripled, and it will be reinforced to hold up to 4,000 pounds of weight, where a 180 gallon fish tank and 55 gallon refugium/sump will be setup. The saltwater tank will eventually be hooked up to a central sump, somewhere between 200 and 400 gallons. A central sump basically allows you to 'network' several fish aquariums with one filtration, heat, chiller, dosing, top off, and pump system.

The biggest advantage of a central sump is the ability to keep the water perimeters stable. The higher the water holding capacity, the easier it is to keep it stable. There are other advantages, like only having to work on one system for all of the fish tanks. Doing water changes at the sump = water changes on every system. Dosing calcium hydroxide on one system = dosing it on every system. Topping off water on one system = topping off all systems.

The disadvantage of doing a central sump is that in the event of diseases or parasitic infestations, you could potentially have a huge problem. Also, if something as simple as a single return pump goes out, which can be expensive, the whole sump is basically shut down.

I'm also going to try really hard to get solar tube lights for the 180 gallon. A 14" tube light = about 500 watts of lighting, probably somewhere in the 5000k-6500k color temperature, which is a little on the yellow spectrum. So, the lighting will have to be supplemented with blue actinic lighting, maybe 460nm or a combination of 420 and 460nm T5 high outputs. T5HOs are the most efficient lighting. They run cooler than power compacts and VHOs, with less electricity, and have a lifetime of 12-18 months, as opposed to 4 months for VHOs and 6 months for power compacts. They also have double the light/water penetration power as power compacts.

Solar tubes are pretty expensive, but they should save over $700-$1000 per year on electricity vs metal halide lighting, not to mention that you don't have to replace bulbs every 12-18 months. Metal Halide lighting also runs extremely hot and usually you have to also run chillers on your aquariums, a lot more money!

-

I'm still not 100% sure how the home theater stuff is going to be run or installed. There are HDMI repeaters and wireless subwoofer signal sends, which may make things easier, but they are expensive, and some reviews show them to have audio and/or video signal dropouts. There are also converters, which convert one signal to another, like HDMI to CAT5/6, Coax, etc.

We're still relatively sure that the surround speakers will be in-wall or in-ceiling. They too are also expensive, but they don't have to be the best, since they usually only handle low-watt direction effects, like bullets flying and in explosions and such.
The two speakers we don't want to skimp on are the subwoofer and center channel speaker.

Although bits and pieces of this and that are usually inexpensive, many of the items are not. Just the speaker wiring will probably be over $100. Most, if not all, of the stuff needed for the install will have to be here by the time the last pieces (walls, for example) are put up and the addition is ready and done.

-

I am concerned about the A/C unit and whether or not it can handle the added addition. This, however, is one of the things that can be changed later.

-

Lighting is basically up in the air. Recessed lighting sounds good, solar tubes (with supplemental lighting for when it's dark) sounds good but expensive.


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Malakai
Posted: Jul 2 2012, 07:22 AM


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This last tropical storm took us back for awhile. The whole yard was flooded, and even now, it's still muddy. The Florida heat and humidity is a killer right now, along with the mosquitoes.

I would have thought we'd have everything enclosed and have the floor in by now. I think the best we can do is finish enclosing the building and then take a break until cooler weather comes along. It's pretty disappointing, because I wanted it complete by Christmas. That probably won't happen.


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