Due to formatting, constant edits, feedback quantities, and a post size limits, I've linked this to Wizards. Please note that this class is indeed intended for The Book of Fey, and you're welcome to comment about it here.

The Enigmist: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=922890

-_o
I'm a little confused but probably have to read more in detail. Mechanically looks a bit complex but you put much thought into it so it shouldn't be too out-of-whack...

Have you tried bouncing this off of Wizards.com forum? Not CharOp, hell no, but the classes section...
Also, if you want some intelligent but at-times biting remarks and quick responses, try The Gaming Den where I get my stuff reviewed. Those guys have yet to let me down; someone always has something insightful to mention, whether it makes or breaks your idea.
The true benefit of the latter forum is that even if your faults in design are made apparent, you come out of the review wiser than when you went in!
With WOTC, sometimes I feel my IQ dropping just by scanning the threads....

Here's the Gaming Den forum to post in:
http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewforum?forum=6

That may be a good idea.

I the mean time, I'll write a little intro/help thing that'll get people to understand the gist of it so it'll be easier to learn.

EDIT: Wrote up the intro in bullet point form. Hope it clears things up early on for you guys.

Alright, I posted it up over there. We'll see what happens.

BTW, does the little bullet point thing help at all?


Oof. Nobody will ever read that much. :[

OK I read it, except for the Enigmas in detail. Where would you like your comments, here or the Gaming Den?

Oh and btw thanks for the synopsis in beginning, it made many points very clear!

I don't mind either way.

You may want to read through some of the enigmas to get a feeling of how the energies are used. Not all of them, but ya know...


Oh good. =]

I luv your photoshop work

Hah. I didn't do too much--just recolorized them from fiery to this weird chaos-y scheme.

Caveat: I haven't had a chance to read this whole thing in depth (especially the individual engimas). That being said...this is FRIKKIN' AWESOME! Finally, someone has come up with a playable chaos mage!

(I had a bad experience with the Chaos Mage from Mongoose. [shudder]...terrific idea, horrible execution.)

A couple of things I did notice:

~Ex-Enigmists. Enigmists must be chaotic, but what happens if one becomes neutral or lawful? Does he lose his enigmist powers? All of them?

~You really ought to name the surges. Would you, as a player, rather refer to "that surge where I get +1 to enigma save DCs"...or "Overwhelming Surge?" Names can (should) be simple.

Haha. XD THanks.

I forgot about the ex-class entry. I should probably include that.
Becoming non-chaotic would probably eliminate all class features until the individual returns to chaotic. You can't be in tune with the energies if you're not one with them.

Yeah, that's probably true, but most of them are so number-based and similar that it'd be hard to give them a fitting name. :S I feel almost like just naming them after greek letters or something. :X

I can probably make some names if ya like.

Edit: like this

Surge List
Limitless Surge- Your Max Energies is increased by your Enigma Energy Limit.
Surge of Renewal- Your full round Energy Collect is increased by your surges known, and your standard action Energy Collect is increased by 1/2 of that (rounded up).
Surge of Free Chaos- On any of your turns, there is a 50% chance that changing the fabrication time of your enigmas will cost 1 less energy. At the start of any of your turns, you may declare that you will opt to suffer energy burn 1 at the end of this turn in order to increase this surge’s chance by 40% for this turn.
Surge of Wild Power- On any of your turns, there is a 50% chance that your Enigma Energy Limit is increased by 1 energy. At the start of any of your turns, you may declare that you will opt to suffer energy burn 2 at the end of this turn in order to increase this surge’s chance by 30% for this turn.
Resonating Surge- Whenever you successfully use an enigma on an enemy, you gain hit points equal to the energy spent on that enigma.
Surge of Far Touch- On any of your turns, there is a 75% chance that the range of your enigmas will cost 1 less energy. At the start of any of your turns, you may declare that you will opt to suffer energy burn 1 at the end of this turn in order to increase this surge’s chance by 20% for this turn.
Surge of the Master's Hand- The fabricator level of your enigmas is increased by 2.
Overwhelming Surge- The DC’s of your enigmas is increased by 1.
Lingering Surge- All of your enigmas with durations of at least 2 rounds but not more than 1 minute have their durations increased by 1 round.
Overflowing Surge- There is a 40% chance that a use of Lesser Overflow will have no penalties. At the start of any of your turns, you may declare that you will opt to suffer energy burn 1 at the end of this turn in order to increase this surge’s chance by 30% for this turn.
Tripartite Surge- There is a 50% chance that you can use 3 enigmas instead of 2 on any given turn. At the start of any of your turns, you may declare that you will opt to suffer energy burn 1 at the end of this turn in order to increase this surge’s chance by 30% for this turn.
Lightning Surge- Your swift Energy Collect is changed to a free action.
Embattled Surge- Whenever you use an enigma, you gain 1 energy for each foe adjacent to you, to a maximum of move action Energy Collect.
Healing Surge- Whenever you energy collect, you gain that many hit points.

Oh man, I missed your edit, and I just made the surge list. :-X None of our names match at all. XD Sorry about that. :0 If you want I can change some of them to match yours.

Side note: I added one more surge I accidentally left out previously (reclamation).

In addition, I introduced an Ex-Enigmists entry. Thanks for the reminding me to do that. =P

By the way, I'm going to be adding Enigmatic Items (all I've done so far are the Enigmatic Item Feats). If you guys have any ideas for them (or anything else in the class), feel free to share.

OK I've decided to give you advice on this here rather than the Gaming Den since there's been some problems with members, at least from my perspective.
I'll be spending more effort on this project now than fishing for ideas on 'game balance' from them, to put it lightly.

So...

While I like the recharging method, the diversity of options for recharging is too much! Personally, and from the perspective as if I'm playing the class for the first time, I'd rather have a set rate of Energy regain with one or two methods to do so.

And please don't take this to heart, but I believe it would be better as a different method to cast the "same old spells" rather than invent entirely new (Invocation-like) spells, balance them to existing classes, then playtest it for bugs. It's worth a shot to introduce to players though, since if they don't prefer learning new spell systems they can just... well.. not play it!
Warlock ended up this way; some people hate it, others love it. Not really much in between.
As a precaution, this class might end up like that.

Surges: very nice. Encounter based, can't stack it, but when introducing the ability to activate more than one at a time... balance might begin to break down in relation to other casters. Not sure though, since I don't really have the mind to analyse that kind of thing instantly (not a mathemetician or "optimizer"!)

HOWEVER for originality's sake the Enigmas are just plain awesome. Maybe the names need a little work, like less 'science' and more 'mysticism', but mixing relatively mild spells together doesn't have that much of an impact on inter-class balance.
For instance, at a glance I can tell a mid-high level Wizard will pwn the Enigmist of same level with as much difficulty as they would a Warlock, Sorcerer, or Bard, so we have that scale set (it's worse at casty-stuff than Wizard)
Compared to a pure warrior like Barbarian or Fighter, it's good (in the right circumstances, of course).

In all I'd say we should definitely use this not only as an alternative to more mundane spellcasters, but as the Feybook replacement for a somewhat less desirable "Fey Warlock" flavor-fix.

One bit of advice on the Enigma selection: well, of course expand it (and I'll make some too if you want) but, as FrankTrollman told me on The Gaming Den, try to focus on the party role of this class.
Is it the blaster?
The battlefield-control mage?
The walking toolbox?
The trickster (semi-Beguiler)?
The manipulator (mind control)?

I see a mix of "manipulator" like a 3.5e Psion mixed with some OK Evocation/Conjuration mixed in almost as backup, the "toolbox".

Try pumping HP to a d8 since the spells are a tad limited in scope and power, and improve BAB to 3/4. So it would be like a slightly weaker chassis compared to Cleric/Druid or maybe a modified Bard Hit Die.

This just might be me alone but I don't like the "Chaos" connection here, just as the alignment restriction on Barbarian; it's limiting without reason.
While its apparent the Enigmist gains power from Chaos, the whole class shuts down when alignment shifts, and I just can't stand that...

Chaos Wings: same as the alignment irk, consider a 'flavor' name than something so default.


While it's a decent semi-caster, there's a lot of bland levels... consider filling them with little bonuses that reinforce the role and capabilities of the class, maybe bonus feats if nothing else comes to mind.
And while it's not a popular thing to do, maybe they could gain little physical modifications as they level up? With or without skill bonus or game effect, though, the class ability to gain "tiny retractable wings" or "little goat horns" around L3-5 is just cool for cool's sake. haha

/END COMMENTARY


I'm considering the role of True Fey while reading this, BTW.
The thought arrived that perhaps we should pay close attention to the mix of class roles we're presenting in Feybook so there's minimal toe-stepping (but a little is fine)

My True Fey will be the Toolbox. haha

Like a Red Mage, it fills gaps in parties, but with unlimited casting the primary role is that of enabling Fey as both wild or civilized beings to present not only a good challenge as an encounter, but to survive doing what they do best: casting spells.
I'll limit the blasting and reality-warping effects that Wizards are known for, and focus on charming, creature-comforts, animal/plant, transportation, some curative, the buff spells, and battlefield control.
While it will be diverse and an individual True Fey can swap their spell powers daily, there won't be many options while in an encounter.
As social, usually reclusive creatures, the spells will reflect that.


In comparison the Enigmist seems to represent the halfway status of mortals striving to understand Fey while abandoning their own nature. Still, the 'transcending' occurs in bursts so they are by default still their normal selves.

Oh my! Long post. :0

The place didn't seem that active when I looked around there. :0

Actually, at first level, you do only have 2 options. You can start from there and branch out as you level.

Eww at same old spells. :0 The whole point was to do something different here.
Indeed, playtesting should take place for any new class.
Most of the response was pretty positive; people seem willing to try it on Wizards. :0
I personally really like Warlocks, as well as Incarnum and the other casting methods. The system set up in core is so... well... per/day. :0 I've met very few who hate it for reasons other than they think it's too weak.

The outlook I started with for this class was "make everything fairly weak, but give them tons and tons of options to adjust it; give power through options, not straightforward buffs." Some people like this, and some people don't. Other than the fact that it may take some extra playtesting, there's nothing wrong with more options. No matter how much I'll do, it'll never have as many options as a wizards, really.

Thanks.
Yeah, I might rename some of them, come to think of it...

I fabricate "sluggishness" and "throbbing migraine." Now you can't use spells. :0 Sure, there are two saves involved, but they're both fortitude. Starting at level 4 I have the ability to fabricate both of these on the same turn (I could do it sooner if I made one of those a "Practiced Enigma." That "pwning" isn't such a sure thing. It's all in the power of synergizing options.

Thanks. =]

Sure, I can make more. If it becomes a featured item in the book, I'll probably make a number of them.
Controller and manipulator all the way. Indeed, there are mild damage things, but most are for manipulation (magic surging, etc), and those that aren't are few in number and aren't meant to be better than a normal caster's.

I'm not sure if you are seeing the big picture with the class's abilities. Really look at the ways you can combine surges, feats, and multiple enigmas per turn. You can pretty much shut down any other class.

A fairly large portion of the enigmas have the [Chaos] descriptor, and you become a Beacon of Chaos at level 20. :0 I don't see how it's not flavorfully justified.

Heh. I see your point. Probably will change that.

I'm not sure if you fully grasp the class's potential. Without an antimagic field, how would you go about taking out this class? It has countless ways to stop almost anyone from doing pretty much anything. It's not meant to actually kill things on its own very well. It's meant to control the battlefield.

Hehehe. Not a bad idea. A little flavor never hurt. :P

I'm waiting to see it. :]

The beacon was made specifically as a sort of destination for the class. You become a spiritually-chaotic being of fey without really changing your physical self.


Thanks for all the work you put into the review! I really appreciate it.

I think at this point the only thing missing is to do to True fey like what you did for Enigmist, or Talisman's Trickster; give it a spell list.

Well, that, and emphasize on the Fey bonus feats.

The Gaming Den is buisy if you go to the section "In My Humble Opinion". I've even recently been accused of posting too much there!

Sorry if it seems I'm making assumptions about it, I have some difficulty seeing how the class works without witnessing it in action.
So on second though disregard anything I stated about the Hit Dice or spell power balance, I really shouldn't be giving advice on that.
Wizards forum, however, seems the place to go, and I hope some gamers can conceive of how Enigmist interacts with other classes and encounters.

HEY Y'ALL just in case you didn't know...

AnonNets won a contest!

http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=1...80&postcount=74

Oh yeah, I guess I forgot to post that here. :P

Also, some parts of it were updated, just to let you guys know.

Finals are over on wednesday for me. I'll be able to work after that.