Some Tier discussion

The only issue is that combo takes a transformation to use.

Also, I thought <P+K had some significant priority to work as a counterattack, as well as a juggle starter with SS cancels.

Yea it takes transformations sadly, I mean all he has as a viable starter is like...<KKK- but it's his best option aside from PPPP-

Not really trying to argue that he is above low tier just saying he can actually hit hard with very little effort, and if you fatigue them you get another free SS charge to their back for like 900 damage.

I don't know why outside the R and S system DIMPS won't give him at least a sword starter or sumtin.

I think this is pretty much all that matters, everyone else justs kind of falls where they fall. I'd say Cap pretty much hit it on the head here, these are essentially the best characters. Not to say that ones below can't win or aren't worth using, but in terms of talking about competition, outside of these 3 groups, hell maybe even the top 2, these are the relevant characters.

so piccolo is liek low tier >_> ouch

Piccolo took a mighty nerfhammer this time. >_<

I agree with what Forte said, though some of the characters not in those 3 groups can compete to an extent.

My personal opinion is that the top 22 characters up too and ending with Android 16 are all fairly solid to some extent.Each of them have at least a few tricks to make them "Good" and they dont start getting "bad" until a little later

2nd Tier caught my eye, the fact that

Syn > Cell

I have some doubts on this, ofcourse i didn't come unprepaired, so lemme wrap up what i think is important here:

-Cells P is way to fast even for Syn/Omega, since both have no nullifiers on their starters Cell wins the battle of starters.

-Shenrons transformation doesen't guard break, it seems if you guard while he transforms you're 100% save, aswell as it only provides useful to me to extend combos and can only be followed up with a regular P string.
~
Cell has a transformation ready at baseline, not just that, it guardbreakers properly + he also gains a baseline through the transformation, which makes the transformation alot more useful.

-Shenrons Rushdown is just amazing he can whoop the floor with ya in a blink of an eye and fast and powerful and wow, just taking into acount PKKK- an >PPPKK-
~
-Cell kinda Lacks rushdown features, except for >PPPP, but then again his P is amazing, it pierces through Shenrons rushdown quite well, not to forget his P pushes back on Guard, a nice defensive gift he got there from Dimps

-Shenrons Damage output can be insane, DT WS and DT into Ultimate are just some ways to get a good deal of damage out of him
~
-Cells damage lacks a bit compared to Shenrons, but he can score 1.7k~ dmg easily with a Match Combo. If the opponent gets fatigued it can extend t o over 2.5k dmg easily, since fatgiue wont go away while juggled, and Cell can juggle for eternity.

-Onto the DMs:

juddging from priority: Dragon Thunder > Energy Field > Whirlwind Spin > Kamehameha

~Dragon Thunder goes through anything, but it's rather easy to avoid.
~Energy Field just plain nulls Whirlwind Spin at a certain range aswell as most other DMs or Regular energie Blasts
~WS is still awesome, it just goes through Cells Kamehameha like it's nothing
~Kamehamehas...worst of the DMs tested

Mkay Time to come to a Conclusion

if i take into account all the above stated stuff we might consider Cell beeing above Shenron.

Okay i hope i gave you some stuff to discuss on, i feel that Cell is above Shenron, you might want to prove me otherwise, feel free to do so.

Aight, since Diz is gonna sum up High and Mid tier, Gogeta old is doing bottom and I have low. Later gonna re-arrange the characters with more detail in their placement.

Fatbuu pros- 4 baseline, a good variety of stuns with decent reach and the priority isn't too bad either. 2 infinites, so he can get his damage up there.

cons- his DM's are kinda at times hard to combo off with certain juggles to get full damage. Lacks a good starter, and it's not that he sucks but doesn't have the priority to compete with above tiers.

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Piccolo pros- some good reach on his arm strings, only zones the really low tier characters tho. A R/T Ultimate, 2 VE GC's for higher baseline ki, and some lunges that lead to GC.

cons- he lacks variety and combo-ability, zoning while there is quite lacking. He isn't much of a threat.

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Gt. Saiyaman pros- <PPPP- starter is pretty good, has some decent variety on stuns and juggles, JP cancel is nice, Ultimate increases attack.

cons- nothing much just lacks priority to better tiers basically, and baseline is 3.

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Super 17 pros- a cancel starter than leads to an infinite. Drain field is pretty nice and his baseline ki is pretty good.

cons- lacks combo ability, most his attacks are stuns, doesn't have anything really to mount and offensive with, or anything defensive.

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Saibaman- pros...lol he is short and kinda fast, has some combo potential.

cons- low baseline, not much in priority, lacks fair damage.

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Android 17 pros- a decent cancel starter, very fast >P. Decent pressure against lower tiers, and Un-TC'able DM.

cons- just combo ability, while he has a cancel starter the start-up isn't really good, just lacks overall anything that's threatening.

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Tien pros- <KKK- starter, pretty average and leads to a juggle, easy infinite, PPPP is fast.

cons- 3 baseline, nothing really safe, low damage, no combo potential.

*****edit******

LOL I forgot Super Buu. Jajaja

pros- 5 baseline ki, PK- is a nice starter, the P range is pretty good, the K hits 2 times, useful against breaking a nullifier. Ultimate are now practical, so he can use absorb-tion to leech off of good DM's, and only costs 3 ki to use. His Ill ball or w/e tracks, and is unblockable. Also he has an infinite.

cons- lacks combo variety, and at times is a bit slow. Overall he's solid just lacks his great mix-up and mindgames from B3.

This post has been edited by VT Aneila on Jan 7 2009, 10:31 PM

ok pros and cons for the nappa recome tier

Ginyu. mmm m he haves one cancel and one stun, thats good i guess.

combo

E, >pkk-,HS,<p*,kkkk^,>pkk-,kkkk*,>pkk-[infinitive] then do >E

well he is ugly, but at least have an infinitive, and his combo do over 1400 dmg

and also haves slow p...

Videl time:
mmm she kinda sucks too, this is all the combo i found

HS,>KK>E-,PPPPP-,>PPPK-,<P+K<E 14 hits - 880 dmg

slow p ...

Saiyawoman now:

>>kk*[first k full charged]<KKK-,HS,>PPPPP-,<KKK-(9 TIMES),PPPP<E(JUSTICE HAWK) 42 hits - 1164 dmg


<kkk-,D~,>ppppp-,<kkk-(7 times),pppp<E[justice hawk) 34 hits - 1332 dmg

Saiyawoman seems kinda decent, and his combo on the back does decent damage
and his p is kinda decent too.

and <kkk- semi infinitive, works good for rushdown


Pan now:

Well pan looks ugly, but she haves some stuff.

Combos

<pp[just the second p hits]<pk~,pppp*,HS,>k,>p+k-[all the times you want is infinitive],
ppp<E[maiden thing for more dmg, but kame for safe move]

so she is basically <pk- for rushdowns.. maybe try HS to start or spam >p+k-

mmmmm slow p also


Hercule now:

Combos:

>ppppp*,dash,VE,<p+k,>pp^ or <pp^[both inf] ,ppkk<E[rolling punch] 41 hits do 1006 dmg

he also haves >k* and <k* but only from behind

and he also haves a slow p....

ok im kinda noob doing this, but that information is cool for sure ^^

Pros & Cons of the current Mid Tier

Krillian
Android 16
Bardok
Trunks
Nappa
Raditz
Reccome
Kid Gohan
Android 20


Krillin:

Pros- 1 Transformation, 4 baselines after transformation, >PPPK- is an okay rush down, KKKK- aswell. Small character

Cons- Really low dmg(P does 28dmg...), no valuable Guard Breakers except for his transformation, starter is too slow, Solarflare is somewhat useless

#16:

Pros- 4 baselines, <PK- is a nice starter with good reach, KKKK- is a good rushdown, good guard breakers like >>P+K those have nice priority and quickness aswell, decent damage cause of rocket tackle...

Cons- ...However Rocket Tackle has a too long ongoing animation which makes it unsave, Without it he can barley go over 1.3kdmg, upclose he gets overthrown by any starter that has about decent speed, no real fatigue abuse possible with a crippled juggle ability.

Bardock:

Pros- Mad Damage possibilities with Heat Phalanx in a fatigue combo, <PP infinite, KP has nullification on P, juggle throw, P is somewhat fast enough to put a little pressure, valuable Guard breakers.
Heat Phalanx is not guardable with a regular guard, it also goes through hyper mode, HP has mad priority it goes through yamchas PPP like it's nothing from a certain distance, probably the highest prioirty DM in the game along with some others

Cons- 3 baselines, crippled combo potential, no priority on his starter, HP takes 2 ki bars which is not good for his prioirty. overall just bad priority, >PPKK is to slow to be a valuable rush down

Trunks:

Pros- 2 transformations, P+K is a very nice rushdown, nice damage potential, Shing Slash has nice reach...

Cons- ...but has absolutley no priorty, nullifier will absorb any impact, and all youve dont is waste 2 ki bars, at best mediocre Starters, rushdown is limited, no real fatigue abuse possible with a crippled juggle ability.

Nappa:

Pros- Actually has nice damage possibility, nice strings and alot of stuns, Head Banger has nice reach and damages really good it eats through any guard, even Aura Guard...

Cons- ...but it's actually useless, because it won't connect on an opponent that does any kinda of animation, be it ki blasts, Punch or kicks. Starters are slow, Rushdown is pretty much crippled to almost zero, only 3 baselines, bomber DX does no threatening damage. Overall a bit too slow, sidesteps are a joke...

Raditz:

Pros- nice juggle ability, RT Ultimate that does 1500dmg + 70% fatigue, DM Saturday Crush does 525dmg aswell, overall not bad combo potential

Cons- lack of starters...only 1 with <kkk- which is also slow on startup, no real rush down, 3 baselines, Double Sunday does joke damage, so it's basically useless when you have a Saturday Crush DM.

Reccoome:

Pros- decent damage potential, >KKP infinite, KKKK- is a decent rushdown, recoome kick has nice reach and nice damage aswell, it has also nice priority and overpowers yamchas P string, it has about the same priority as Bardocks HP, it also goes through guard as if it was nothing.

Cons- 3 baselines, slow as hell starters, bad buard breakers.

Kid Gohan:

Pros- Crazy Damage Potential with RT ultimates, small size. 1 transformation that give him 4 baselines, RT ultimate still gives 50% fatigue on Block (Super Masenko)

Cons- Slow starters, slow rushdown, no good guard breakers, lacks a juggle ability to abuse fatigued state.

#20/Gero:

Pros- not too bad in damage section, gets alot better in air(gains more stuns), Energy Drain is an absolute must. Juggle throw, good guard breakers

Cons- ground options are very limited, rushdown is bad, Photon wave and Photon laser are too alike, juggle ability lacks very much and you cant take advantage of an enemy that is fatigued that well.

_____________


That's that, oh yes i got Fog to make the Upper Tier, yes i know am lazy, but i still did 9 freaking chars, so no complaining ^^

Upper Mid Pros & Cons

Vegeta
Cooler
Super Baby
Kid Trunks
Broly
Android 18
Frieza

Vegeta:

Pros- nice dmg potential, rushdown is also infinite >KKKKK-, good enough starter with >PKK- (his decent reach, lacks speed however) 3 transformations, juggle throw, good guard breakers.

Cons- Overall too slow ( lost >KKK>K from B3 ), hardly any nullifiers, dmg only gets high at ssj4 state, Final Impact has late recovery (unsave on block) and takes up 2 ki bars use at own risk

Cooler:

Pros- easy infinite >KPPPP, 4 baselines to start with, lots of juggle options, sauzer blade tracks, cant be guarded and does 525 dmg upfront, is able to punish fatigued opponents good with his infinite, has a RTU

Cons- Starter and rushdwon are too slow, not many options on startups. almost no cancels, to much stun based.

Super Baby:

Pros- 5 baselines, damaging Final Flash DM, No minigame Ultimate, easy to achive a good deal of damage, >P+K is a nice priority move, PPKK- best starter is also the best rushdown and Infinite...

Cons- ...However he loses a cancel opportunity with <KKK- if he uses PPKK-, also <KKK- misses alot

Kid Trunks:

Pros- 1 transformation, RT Ultimate, KKPPP- is a decent starter, 2 infintes >PPPP and PK, small size, due to his juggle ability and RT ultimate he can do some nice damage...

Cons- ...overall his P&Ks lack damage, comeon PPPPP does 165dmg altogether, only 1 good guard breaker, slow rushdown game, Final Canon has little priority and is stopped by practically anything.

Broly:

Pros- 4 baselines at start, 1 transformation, >PKK- as a starter has insane reach and is pretty quick, KKKK- is a good rushdown, overall more quicker than B3 self, Gigantic Press can't be guarded and does nice dmg, a Real Time Ultimate that does nice dmg...

Cons- however this Ultimate is so random on hit that it really makes me think monkeys threw this game together in a hurry, If i hit goku with it correct, he slides on the ground not beeing able to punish, if i hit Yamcha with it he can recover everytime, seriously what the hell were they doing while making this ? It also fails completly in air.

Anyhow he also is too big, an easy target, sidestep is rather slow, most of his stuns or cancels use the same animation which causes a low juggle.

#18:

Pros- KKKK cross up hits anyone who is guarding, becomes alot more useful in the air due to additional stuns, Deadly Dance Infinite with nice speed and only 1 ki bar useage...

Cons- ...however deadly dance has only one nullifier, blocking wont do the trick, but a quick p+k or nullifier will stop DD from connecting, it doesent necessarily override other PDMs either( overrides anything that has no nullification tho ), her overall damage output is weak, rushdown is not that great since DD doesen't guard break

Frieza:

Pros- start off transformation, 4 transformations overall, >PPPKK- is a really good starter, <PPPP- air resets, >KKPP- is a good rush down, <p+k has nullification and combo ability, overall usefulness of strings, Damage is decent aswell even in first form.

Cons- even at highest transformation he only has 4 baselines, Deathwave with funky hit calculation sometimes, death beam is pretty weak

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Okay i did this stuff anyway cause fog would have needed to play most of these chars lol with that we are complete i think, for a shallow overview of the cast.

Just gonna re-arrange the tier list now, to make it easier to place everyone. Adding in Goku and Vegeta w/ Vegito capsule because they are pretty much their own character and get movesets from B3 versions.
(Also Vegito is hecka practical, and does stupid damage and fatigue)

Top tier

GT Goku
Z Goku
Yamcha
Pikkon
Dabura

High tier

Syn Shenron
Jan
Cell
Vegito (B3 Vegeta)
Teen Gohan
GT Vegeta
Adult Gohan
Kid Buu

Upper tier

Z Vegeta
Super baby
Goten
Broly
Frieza
Vegito (B3 Goku)
Bardock
Android 18
Super Buu
Kid Trunks

Mid tier

Android 16
Krillin
Recoome
Trunks
Cooler
Nappa
Raditz
Kid Gohan
Fat Buu
Android 20

Low tier

Piccolo
Great Saiyaman
Android 17
Super 17
Ginyu
Tien
Saibaman

Recoome/Nappa tier

Great Saiyaman 2
Pan
Videl
Mr.Satan

This post has been edited by VT Aneila on Jan 8 2009, 08:08 AM

I think we should call the Vegitos Old Goku/Vegeta and call the regular characters New Goku/Vegeta.

Heres the v1 tier list me Diz and Anelia ended up agreeing on

Top

Yamcha
GT Goku
Goku
Dabura
Pikkon

High

Syn Shenron
Janemba
Teen Gohan
Cell
Vegito [Vegeta]
GT Vegeta
Gohan
Kid Buu

Upper

Super Baby
Goten
Broly
Frieza
Z Vegeta
Vegito [B3 Goku]
Bardok
Super Buu
Kid Trunks

Mid

Android 16
Krillin
Trunks
Recoome
Cooler
Nappa
Raditz
Kid Gohan
Android 18
Fat Buu
Android 20

Low

Piccolo
Great Saiyaman
Android 17
Super 17
Ginyu
Tien
Saibaman

Recoome/Nappa

Great Saiyaman 2
Pan
Videl
Mr.Satan


Notes

1] You may have noticed Veggeto made his way onto the list.This was decided because when you put Fusion caps on Goku and Vegeta their entire movelist reverts to their Budokai 3 form.For Goku its weaker but for Vegeta he gets a heck of alot better.The loss of an ultimate opportunity also isnt that bad because Veggetos damage and fatigue causing abilities are huge even with just his death moves while getting a huge baseline and STILL packing a transformation for guard breaks

2[ The Gokus moved up over Dabura and Pikkon.The speed of the elbow is so high that canceling it with enough speed lets you do goofy stuff like bounce off Yamchas P chain and its goes though most of Daburas zoning moves.Daburas great and hes the best Anti-Yamcha but lets be honest its alot easier to zip around with Goku trying to plow through people with his starters than it is to play Daburas zoning game in a real live match

3] Syn Shenron can land 2 Dragon Thunders if he combos into a HS,This can push his damage up into moronically high levels especially with his ultimate comboing off it without damage buffering

4] Videl/Saiyaman 2 and 17/Super 17 are like 2 halves of one good character.Saiyaman 2 has good starters terrible moves Videl has good moves terrible starters.Super 17 has the baseline reach Drain field and better ultimate with no mix-ups and starters but 17 one nice starter and a terrible almost generic moveset otherwise.If Dimps combined Saiyaman2/Videl and made Super 17 a transformation for 17 they would be solid characters

5] I still wanna test all ultimates for launcher effectiveness and which ones get around damage buffering so they are useful in big combos.Maybe next time

Well, I'd go with just calling the Vegito versions Old Goku and Old Vegeta. But for the IW versions seems weird saying 'new'. Honestly I am more partial to just saying B3 and IW versions. xD

Hehe, I know. It was a reference to Street Fighter. =)

B3 and IW sounds better.

Allrighty then this is looking pretty solid thus far.I think it might be a good idea if we started openning character specific threads up on GameFAQs

Especially since the douchebag moderaters there couldnt recognize a great FAQ if it F-5'ed them off a steel cage on a flaming glass and thumbtack covered table

Wow, haven't been here in a while. Good to see a lot of progress towards a completed tier list. In any case...

Considering that there is only one FAQ up, I'd say that anything you guys submit would be accepted. Nnamz and I did do almost half of the SBAR cast by ourselves, with all of the activity here it wouldn't be hard to get everyone from high tier and up an FAQ.

Actually they are rejecting FAQS left and right, it seems only you can get yours up due to the content.

Thats strange, from what I've seen posted on the threads here there is more than enough content for an FAQ. A character FAQ only needs to be 9k in size to be accepted (according to Nnamz's SBAR Goku FAQ) so why are the IW FAQs being rejected for content?

In any case, if character specific FAQs are a problem, screw the system and just do a FAQ for the entire game. Gamefaqs is offering a $30 reward to anyone who can submit a complete Infinite World FAQ by Feb 15 (see 39th most wanted FAQ from their home page) and I'm sure the information in this tier list alone would take care of the majority of the FAQ. Just throw in a capsule list, a list of story line fights in order, some general combat tips, and some BS about what each mode does and you should be good.